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December Model Discussion


UlsterCountySnowZ

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37 minutes ago, UlsterCountySnowZ said:

The map was posted as a joke... I’m not sure why it was taken serious.. my headline was even posted was even a joke lol..... for starters I know better than post a snow map for 9 days out and be serious about 

Yeah, I know your post was all in good fun. I only thought it was some good info for the Kuchera apologists I've been seeing lately. Just because it's a slightly more advanced algorithm than straight 10:1 doesn't mean it's better.

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29 minutes ago, Juliancolton said:

Yeah, I know your post was all in good fun. I only thought it was some good info for the Kuchera apologists I've been seeing lately. Just because it's a slightly more advanced algorithm than straight 10:1 doesn't mean it's better.

I wonder if at some point we'll just be using automated sensors to measure snowfall using some advanced algorithm.  Everything else is automated so why not lol.  Just measure liquid equivalence and use some math to figure out what the proper ratio should be and then come up with a snowfall total.

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3 minutes ago, Snow88 said:

Hell no

Looks like a friday morning start according to the 3 models

Haven't seen a storm last this long in quite a while.  I don't think that even Jan 1996 or Jan 2016 lasted this long lol.  And usually these things start earlier than expected.

 

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3 minutes ago, Snow88 said:

I think 96 and 2016 lasted about 30 hours

Yeah remember 2016 had that death band at the end that just wouldn't quit and just snowed itself out over our area, I think that's what got JFK over 30" lol.  3.0" LE too.....amazing!  Straight line of 30" + snows from Allentown to Morris Plains to Jackson Heights to JFK lol.

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1 minute ago, Paragon said:

Yeah remember 2016 had that death band at the end that just wouldn't quit and just snowed itself out over our area, I think that's what got JFK over 30" lol.  3.0" LE too.....amazing!

I had 30 inches

It was insane

1 minute ago, Paragon said:

If you had to pick one that you would want to see a repeat of, would it be Jan 96, PD2 or Jan 2016?

Boxing Day

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6 minutes ago, Paragon said:

Hour 186, did you see how close the isobars are, must be really windy and rapidly strengthening.  I hope that happens in time for us and not too far north.

I'm cautiously excited. The model agreement is superb. Give it a few days to let the globals and the ensembles do their wavering and see. The set up is on point. 6-7 days out.

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1 minute ago, Nibor said:

I'm cautiously excited. The model agreement is superb. Give it a few days to let the globals and the ensembles do their wavering and see. The set up is on point. 6-7 days out.

Yes I love it and this is where all the fun begins.  I think tonight was the first night of the fun.  At least half the fun is tracking these things for a week and the other half is the actual event :)

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1 minute ago, JetsPens87 said:

Usually at this range larger storm systems are way over modeled in terms of duration.

I've noticed this too, Boxing Day is actually a great example.  It was supposed to be a 36 hour storm and was just about 24 hours.  The only exceptions I can think of right now were Jan 1996 and Jan 2016 which were 30 hour storms.  But I can't think of any 48+ hour storms unless you go way back......March 1888 and that Feb 1920 72 hour storm with 4.5" of LE (20" of snow/sleet mix) that really intrigues me.  Any reason why these extreme duration storms don't seem to be as common as they used to be, JP?

March 1888 and Feb 1920 must be extremely rare patterns that they haven't repeated like that even though it's been nearly 100 years in the case of the latter one.

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1 minute ago, Paragon said:

I've noticed this too, Boxing Day is actually a great example.  It was supposed to be a 36 hour storm and was just about 24 hours.  The only exceptions I can think of right now were Jan 1996 and Jan 2016 which were 30 hour storms.  But I can't think of any 48+ hour storms unless you go way back......March 1888 and that Feb 1920 72 hour storm with 4.5" of LE (20" of snow/sleet mix) that really intrigues me.  Any reason why these extreme duration storms don't seem to be as common as they used to be, JP?

March 1888 and Feb 1920 must be extremely rare patterns that they haven't repeated like that even though it's been nearly 100 years in the case of the latter one.

In recent history at least I can point to a lack of significant impactful Atlantic blocking upstream to slow storms down. For the better part of this timeframe we have been using the term “progressive flow “ way more than I would like to be.

 

As to why models seem to depict this scenario only to lose it as we close the lead time... that would seemingly require some more discussion. I think models struggle particularly in progressive flows and transitionary pattern periods. 

  

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3 minutes ago, JetsPens87 said:

In recent history at least I can point to a lack of significant impactful Atlantic blocking upstream to slow storms down. For the better part of this timeframe we have been using the term “progressive flow “ way more than I would like to be.

 

As to why models seem to depict this scenario only to lose it as we close the lead time... that would seemingly require some more discussion. I think models struggle particularly in progressive flows and transitionary pattern periods. 

  

Also, if memory serves aren't the very long duration storms closer to spring time?  Maybe NAO blocks are more common at that time?

I just remembered that March 1956 was another example of a very long duration storm (during a La Nina too.)

March 2001 if it would have happened in our area would have been another great example.  As it turned out we still got a moderate to heavy snowfall (Suffolk County) on the second day of the event.

 

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