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The early speculation on winter 2013-14


weathafella

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I see what you are saying however the models all agree on PNA ridging developing next week. The image you posted doesn't even have the PNA going positive

 

That is because the ridging is further west than a classic +PNA...we end up with more of a neutral PNA and a -EPO. Late in the period the ensemble mean does go slightly positive on the PNA...you can see it on the 14 day forecast at the bottom of the graph Tip posted.

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So what's the significance of one recurving while two do not?

 

Sice the West Pac got active about a month ago, TC track seems based on point of origin.  Those forming 130E and westward don't recurve, or even close to it, 135E and eastward do, completely.  Anything getting much above 25N makes the hook.

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That is because the ridging is further west than a classic +PNA...we end up with more of a neutral PNA and a -EPO. Late in the period the ensemble mean does go slightly positive on the PNA...you can see it on the 14 day forecast at the bottom of the graph Tip posted.

Interesting. I noticed this on the last GFS run. The Ridge was off the West Coast instead of in the West like you said. Seems to flatten the pattern out because of this also. Like Tip said still very early but learned something new about why the position of a ridge can be important to getting cold air here in the States.

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I see what you are saying however the models all agree on PNA ridging developing next week. The image you posted doesn't even have the PNA going positive

No, ALL models do not...

 

Every one of those curves in that image presents a model run.  

 

Just let it go... The PNA mean is not positive until the very distant extended edge in the mean. 

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That is because the ridging is further west than a classic +PNA...we end up with more of a neutral PNA and a -EPO. Late in the period the ensemble mean does go slightly positive on the PNA...you can see it on the 14 day forecast at the bottom of the graph Tip posted.

 

 

Did you see the 00z oper. GFS    lol.   

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SAI on the Eurasian side looks like it will do well south of 60N...that is the side we care most about. Far eastern Siberia has less influence...at least according to the Cohen studies.

 

It looks like a lot of eastern and central Canada will start building up snow pack for sure.

 

Interesting.. I know the whole domain used in the study is called Eurasia, but I didnt recall reading that the western side is more important than the eastern side.. in that case it looks pretty good I guess for that 15th-25th time frame roughly. I still wonder if we hit a brick walla with advancement though at the end with the lwo hght anomalies being a little too closer to the pole for my liking.

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My guess is the heart of the cold will hang west over the Plains and Lakes, but we should see pieces breaking off.

 

 

Yeah without much NAO help and the shorter wavelengths this time of year, it def favors northern plains to Lakes and up in Canada...but that type of pattern could still give the interior an outside shot at some weenie flakes or even an event. Ways out there still though.

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Yeah without much NAO help and the shorter wavelengths this time of year, it def favors northern plains to Lakes and up in Canada...but that type of pattern could still give the interior an outside shot at some weenie flakes or even an event. Ways out there still though.

 

Oh yeah for sure. It only takes one good cold shot even if it's brief. But I have zero complains with the pattern progged. I think we'd all take the pattern if it were December on...even November for that matter.

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Oh yeah for sure. It only takes one good cold shot even if it's brief. But I have zero complains with the pattern progged. I think we'd all take the pattern if it were December on...even November for that matter.

 

Yeah that is a November 2002 type PAC...and Feb 2003. If we somehow got that type of PAC in the winter, it would be pretty epic. But I do not think the PAC will be that nice looking .

 

But as as long as there are hhigher height anomalies in the EPO region, I don't mind a GOA low. We've dealt with a GOA low in a lot of recent winters that turned out very good.

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Yeah that is a November 2002 type PAC...and Feb 2003. If we somehow got that type of PAC in the winter, it would be pretty epic. But I do not think the PAC will be that nice looking .

But as as long as there are hhigher height anomalies in the EPO region, I don't mind a GOA low. We've dealt with a GOA low in a lot of recent winters that turned out very good.

So I'm assuming that the euro ensembles keep ridging right through D15 in the EPO region.
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Euro weeklies warm significantly week 4 as they retro the SE ridge, NAO goes positive and trough goes back to west. Hope they're wrong on that

 

Week 4 has been about as accurate as Jerry's squirrels. It's a weak SE ridge and temps near normal. Still ridging into nrn Greenland and borderline -EPO although it's more of a Bering sea ridge. Canada is cold.

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strange to see so many NINOs (mod-strong at that) on that list

 

 

Its a very Nino-ish N PAC pattern for October. Whether its fleeting or not, impossible to say yet, but I certainly would hedge against that type of PAC pattern in the winter months...but I hope I'm wrong as it would be a sweet pattern to have that type of western and N PAC ridging.

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Its a very Nino-ish N PAC pattern for October. Whether its fleeting or not, impossible to say yet, but I certainly would hedge against that type of PAC pattern in the winter months...but I hope I'm wrong as it would be a sweet pattern to have that type of western and N PAC ridging.

yeah, a lot of Nino features including the snow cover over the Pole

notice how 76 and 02 are on that list, #1 and #2 respectively for fall Eurasia snow cover and look what we have up there now

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The waters in the equatorial Pacific still have quite a cold pocket east of the dateline. Near and west of the dateline the waters have been warm. Not surprisingly easterly and westerly anomalies accompany cold and warm areas respectively. I suppose the good news is that warmer waters can at least help any MJO wave propagate east towards the dateline.  The stat models still are the coldest of the ENSO models right now. If they were to be too cold and we get slight warming...I suppose the atmosphere will try to adjust to a changing regime even if the definition is still neutral per temps. A warming trend is more important than the actual SST value IMO. However, the problem is that we are just about out of time to see any pronounced benefit of ENSO warming...if there were to be any. So neutral it likely will be.

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