michsnowfreak Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'm 100% certain City Airport picked up 6"+ on 12/26/12. I measured 5.8" around 9pm that evening, and I'd says upwards of another inch fell through the night. Not sure where dmc got that from. You actually probably had about 7" if I had to guess based on that 9pm obs. Though snow certainly lightened up bigtime during the evening, it did not stop snowing until around 4am. I measured at midnight and was at 6.0" on the nose, and had another 0.3" on the snowboard at 7am for a storm total of 6.3". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 I think Trent was referring to official stations that measure snowfall. Why did you add Detroit City when there isnt even snow data for them? Im sure they had 6"+ on Dec 26th. The nearest spotter is Grosse Pointe Farms (typically one of the biggest lowballers in the area) and they reported 6.8". As for Jackson, they probably had 6"+ from slushfest in late Feb. You are correct with TOL (their biggest just 3.4"!). Per Harry, BTLs biggest was 5.5", but we will have to wait to see when BTLs data comes out if they officially had 6"+. Me and them will have big issues if that happens and thus the 5.5" gets bumped to 6". Must be the lake helping CLE out in the lean years. Detroits longest stretch without a 6"+ storm? 2,478 days! After a storm dumped 6.3" on Feb 10/11, 1944, there would not be another 6" storm until 6.3" fell Nov 25/26, 1950. You wanna know what the SECOND longest stretch is? 1,836 days when after 7.6" fell on Jan 30, 1939 not another would be seen until the 1944 storm. So yes, a stretch of 4,316 days with just one 6"+ storm. the 1940s were an absolute disaster of a decade. Nothing else in Detroits record comes CLOSE. My goodness i would have to do a self imposed ban if that ever happened in my backyard living this far north. Reasons why there is just some areas i could never ever even think of living. Hell this 2 year stretch has been hard enough as it is. Yep the lakes do help alot of places like here and Cleveland in that regard with 6+ events. Having the moisture killing apps ( down sloping aka dry easterly winds ) is a huge killer out that way and points east away from LES belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Me and them will have big issues if that happens and thus the 5.5" gets bumped to 6". My goodness i would have to do a self imposed ban if that ever happened in my backyard living this far north. Reasons why there is just some areas i could never ever even think of living. Hell this 2 year stretch has been hard enough as it is. Yep the lakes do help alot of places like here and Cleveland in that regard with 6+ events. Having the moisture killing apps ( down sloping aka dry easterly winds ) is a huge killer out that way and points east away from LES belts. Keep in mind though Harry...that was WELL before either of our times . Nothing comes close to matching the 1940s in Detroits period of record. Nothing. A few ok winters that decade (by ok I mean good snowcover and cold) but deep snow (outside of a peak depth in Jan '43 of 11" from several snowfalls built up) was literally MIA that decade. A fierce blizzard struck the entire state Mar 25, 1947 so cant say there were NO exciting storms, but no exciting big ones here. Its funny because it almost appears that lately DTW is in a much more favorable synoptic spot than CLE. The Lakes literally assure that winter will show up no matter what plans ma nature tries to lay down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Keep in mind though Harry...that was WELL before either of our times . Nothing comes close to matching the 1940s in Detroits period of record. Nothing. A few ok winters that decade (by ok I mean good snowcover and cold) but deep snow (outside of a peak depth in Jan '43 of 11" from several snowfalls built up) was literally MIA that decade. A fierce blizzard struck the entire state Mar 25, 1947 so cant say there were NO exciting storms, but no exciting big ones here. Its funny because it almost appears that lately DTW is in a much more favorable synoptic spot than CLE. The Lakes literally assure that winter will show up no matter what plans ma nature tries to lay down. You know my opinion and thus EVERYTHING goes in cycles. Thus yes i think it is very possible we see a period like that again in the future. With any luck though that shouldn't be till long after we are gone. However we could come close in the next few years/decade or so thanks to the overall trend in the NAO/AO/PDO etc. GW may help the cause though ( keep it from getting THAT bad ) along with the less active sun that is predicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 You know my opinion and thus EVERYTHING goes in cycles. Thus yes i think it is very possible we see a period like that again in the future. With any luck though that shouldn't be till long after we are gone. However we could come close in the next few years/decade or so thanks to the overall trend in the NAO/AO/PDO etc. GW may help the cause though ( keep it from getting THAT bad ) along with the less active sun that is predicted. Whats funny is that when you look at the temps and snowcover days in the 1940s, they arent bad at all. A few very bare and warm winters but also a few very cold and snowcovered ones so in the end the decade is very close to the longterm normal in THAT regard. But the snowfall and snowstorms and snow depth (meaning how deep) were down across the board (and this is true across every first order site nearby). I mean ridiculous. I mean over a FOOT less than the longterm normal in the 1940s winters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Whats funny is that when you look at the temps and snowcover days in the 1940s, they arent bad at all. A few very bare and warm winters but also a few very cold and snowcovered ones so in the end the decade is very close to the longterm normal in THAT regard. But the snowfall and snowstorms and snow depth (meaning how deep) were down across the board (and this is true across every first order site nearby). I mean ridiculous. I mean over a FOOT less than the longterm normal in the 1940s winters. The dust bowl era ( thus drought ) probably contributed a bit to that. Also solar ( sun ) activity was near epic by the late 40s. Then ofcourse we had the epic -PDO roll in and thus see the epic winters the PAC NW had back then. If i recall correctly one of our worst ever winters ( region ) was also one of their best and thus see 1948-49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 The dust bowl era ( thus drought ) probably contributed a bit to that. Also solar ( sun ) activity was near epic by the late 40s. Then ofcourse we had the epic -PDO roll in and thus see the epic winters the PAC NW had back then. If i recall correctly one of our worst ever winters ( region ) was also one of their best and thus see 1947-48. Remember 1948-49 was the historically crappy winter in this region. The 1947-48 winter was truly a one-of-a-kind here. The total snowfall at Detroit of 26.6" ranks as the 26th least winter on record (133 years of record) but with 89 days of 1"+ snowcover its one of the top 5 "whitest". Also had a historic New Years ice storm. The biggest snowstorm the entire winter was 4.4" on Dec 15/16 which basically layed down the winter long snowcover. Cold, dry, and white (sans historic ice storm) sums up that winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Remember 1948-49 was the historically crappy winter in this region. The 1947-48 winter was truly a one-of-a-kind here. The total snowfall at Detroit of 26.6" ranks as the 26th least winter on record (133 years of record) but with 89 days of 1"+ snowcover its one of the top 5 "whitest". Also had a historic New Years ice storm. The biggest snowstorm the entire winter was 4.4" on Dec 15/16 which basically layed down the winter long snowcover. Cold, dry, and white (sans historic ice storm) sums up that winter. Edited and fixed my post. Always get that mixed up and thus yeah it was 48-49.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 TOL BTL Detroit City JXN just around this area. I think Trent was referring to official stations that measure snowfall. Why did you add Detroit City when there isnt even snow data for them? Im sure they had 6"+ on Dec 26th. The nearest spotter is Grosse Pointe Farms (typically one of the biggest lowballers in the area) and they reported 6.8". As for Jackson, they probably had 6"+ from slushfest in late Feb. You are correct with TOL (their biggest just 3.4"!). Per Harry, BTLs biggest was 5.5", but we will have to wait to see when BTLs data comes out if they officially had 6"+. Do many large cities not track snowfall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonger Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Heck, might want to check Alpena, they have had a terrible winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppsRunner Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 CMH has almost twice the amount of snow as me this winter. I've probably already posted that at least once before. I still can't understand how both CMH and DTW have around 40" while TOL has 20.8" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Do many large cities not track snowfall? I would imagine like Detroit, many of the official stations are in the burbs. Either way you slice it, both DTW and Detroit proper have had a 6"+ snowfall this winter (Dec 26/27). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerball Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Do many large cities not track snowfall? Official NWS observations must be done at Airports according to FAA regulations. It's due to safety concerns for planes landing and taking off. Airports for major cities tend to be on the outskirts of town, to assure the flight and landing paths are enough distance from high density areas and skyscrapers (also due to FAA regulations) Unofficial observations as a result would be very hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Official NWS observations must be done at Airports according to FAA regulations. It's due to safety concerns for planes landing and taking off. Airports for major cities tend to be on the outskirts of town, to assure the flight and landing paths are enough distance from high density areas and skyscrapers (also due to FAA regulations) Unofficial observations as a result would be very hard to find. Yep and that is one big reason why for many years ( especially after 9-11 ) they have tried to shut down Reagan in DC. Thus the safety concerns. Imagine only having data from Dulles INT which is located in the western burbs west of the beltway in VA? DC would seem alot snowier then it is. It is a shame better data is not kept inside of city's as well as the burbs. Ofcourse that costs money so yeah good luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 CMH has almost twice the amount of snow as me this winter. I've probably already posted that at least once before. I still can't understand how both CMH and DTW have around 40" while TOL has 20.8" Its got to be crap luck. Are you close to TOL or closer to the city? I think TOL is west of Toledo? Do you ever question any of their measurments? Like I said, its probably terrible luck. CVG: 21.9" DAY: 27.6" CMH: 37.0" TOL: 20.8" DTW: 47.2" Days this season with measurable snow at DTW and TOL (if one place had a T the same day the other had measurable, I included it for neatness sake, but obviously there are tons of T's I didnt include) ..............DTW...TOL Nov 23....0.1.....T Nov 25....0.3.....0 Dec 21....1.1.....0.6 Dec 24....0.7.....0.2 Dec 26....5.8.....2.8 Dec 27....0.4.....T Dec 28....0.1.....0.1 Dec 29....2.2.....2.8 Dec 30....0.3.....T Dec 31....0........0.5 Jan 5.......0.5.....T Jan 6.......0.1.....T Jan 21.....1.5.....0.2 Jan 22.....0.3.....0.4 Jan 23.....0.3.....0.3 Jan 24.....0.1.....0.1 Jan 25.....3.0.....1.8 Jan 26.....0.2.....T Jan 27.....2.2.....0.1 Jan 31.....1.8.....0.2 Feb 1......1.6.....T Feb 2......2.3.....2.9 Feb 3......0.5.....0.5 Feb 4......3.3.....1.8 Feb 5......0.3.....0.5 Feb 8......2.5.....0.1 Feb 16....2.1.....0.1 Feb 17....0.3.....T Feb 19....0.6.....0.2 Feb 20....T........0.7 Feb 22....2.9.....1.9 Feb 26....2.5.....T Feb 27....4.0.....1.6 Feb 28....0.6.....0.3 Mar 2......0.1.....T Mar 3......0.1.....T Mar 13....0.5.....0.1 Mar 16....1.9.....T Mar 18....0.1.....T So far....47.2....20.8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Official NWS observations must be done at Airports according to FAA regulations. It's due to safety concerns for planes landing and taking off. Airports for major cities tend to be on the outskirts of town, to assure the flight and landing paths are enough distance from high density areas and skyscrapers (also due to FAA regulations) Unofficial observations as a result would be very hard to find. Observations can be taken within like a 2 mile radius or something like that outside the airport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppsRunner Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Its got to be crap luck. Are you close to TOL or closer to the city? I think TOL is west of Toledo? Do you ever question any of their measurments? Like I said, its probably terrible luck. CVG: 21.9" DAY: 27.6" CMH: 37.0" TOL: 20.8" DTW: 47.2" Days this season with measurable snow at DTW and TOL (if one place had a T the same day the other had measurable, I included it for neatness sake, but obviously there are tons of T's I didnt include) Yeah I'm actually south of the city and approximately 20 miles from the airport itself but that's the closest airport to me. The only storm measurement I question is Dec 26/27. I ended up with around 6" from the help of a LES band that set up along I-75 from Toledo to North Baltimore for a few hours... other than that I haven't seen much to disagree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebo Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 It is going to be painful watching this one slide just to the South of here especially with the thunder snow prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppsRunner Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 It is going to be painful watching this one slide just to the South of here especially with the thunder snow prospects. And for people like me who have never experienced it... if this slides south at the last second it will be a lot more frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yeah I'm actually south of the city and approximately 20 miles from the airport itself but that's the closest airport to me. The only storm measurement I question is Dec 26/27. I ended up with around 6" from the help of a LES band that set up along I-75 from Toledo to North Baltimore for a few hours... other than that I haven't seen much to disagree with. Despite the dryslot and missing the les band, that 2.8" does sound wayy low on Dec 26th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerball Posted March 23, 2013 Author Share Posted March 23, 2013 Yep and that is one big reason why for many years ( especially after 9-11 ) they have tried to shut down Reagan in DC. Thus the safety concerns. Imagine only having data from Dulles INT which is located in the western burbs west of the beltway in VA? DC would seem alot snowier then it is. It is a shame better data is not kept inside of city's as well as the burbs. Ofcourse that costs money so yeah good luck with it. Yeah. That's part of what happened with City Airport as well. It was Detroit's main airport until WWII, when Willow Run became Detroit's main airport. Eventually, Metro Airport was constructed and opened in the 1950s. Flights out of City Airport continued through (I think) the late 80s/early 90s, when the FAA grounded all flights because the runways were too short given the high density of people around it, not to mention the cemetary plots (that doesn't apply as much now, given the neighborhoods that were SW of it have essentially reverted to prairies). It was Southwest Airline's main hub in Detroit. The FAA is going to close its control tower though due to the sequestration cuts, so any hope on future commercial flights in/out of City Airport are shot. City Airport has tons of potential though, given that it's less than 15 minutes from downtown. It is also far more convenient to reach versus Metro Airport. Getting to Metro Airport from the far eastside (or even downtown) is an absolute pain in the ass. It takes a GOOD 30-45 minutes to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppsRunner Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Despite the dryslot and missing the les band, that 2.8" does sound wayy low on Dec 26th. It was a god awful storm here... they dryslotted for several hours during the day too which didn't help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Alright, so for areas north of the Ohio River (CVG is close enough) this storm narrows the no 6" storm club down to following first order climate sites for the sub-forum. If any are missing add them to the list. APN CLE CVG DVN FNT LAN MFD TOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmc76 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Alright, so for areas north of the Ohio River (CVG is close enough) this storm narrows the no 6" storm club down to following first order climate sites for the sub-forum. If any are missing add them to the list. APN CLE CVG DVN LAN MFD TOL You can add FNT to that list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 You can add FNT to that list And BTL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michsnowfreak Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 You can add FNT to that list Forgot about FNT. They JUST missed it (biggest storm 5.9") but a tenth is a tenth ...they belong on the list as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 And BTL. I'm only using first order climate sites, I don't think BTL fits that criteria. They don't have any of the key data elements on the GRR website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I'm only using first order climate sites, I don't think BTL fits that criteria. They don't have any of the key data elements on the GRR website. Regardless there has not been a 6" inch event here. Many times first order stations do not tell the whole picture and can miss a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geos Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Regardless there has not been a 6" inch event here. Many times first order stations do not tell the whole picture and can miss a ton. Doh! Thought you had at least one this winter! How much did you get on that February 26-27th storm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Regardless there has not been a 6" inch event here. Many times first order stations do not tell the whole picture and can miss a ton. That can be true, but with FNT, LAN, TOL, CLE, and MFD all missing out, that's a pretty good sample size of first order stations for the area stretching from South Central Michigan into Northern Ohio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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