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Chill Storm Discussion and Obs


WinterWxLuvr

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Last sentence resonates. We've been here and done this a lot. I can take a couple guesses.

Another run....another tall stack of possibilities. Accum snow for you and me is still pretty slim but not off the table.

I love the 8 am start....no chance to warm....plus we get to watch it....of course the time will change...I'd lean toward no impact for me except maybe I see some flakes or sleet initially and then just cold rain..I'm not being IMBY On this one....I have been following it for its impact west and north....I don't know if it will be ideal ice storm conditions

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nothing is really clarified except there has been some more consistency with the solution....It is a nightmare forecast...for a high travel day and LWX/CWG have their hands full

Lots of forecast problems, the low tracking into the tn valley makes this a pretty good freezing rain event for the the western burbs, maybe a good snow for Oakland and for us, it even looks like we would see a period of snow at the onset. For us it wouldn't last long but might look pretty. I actually think making a forecast would be fun. Time for bed so I'm lucid tomorrow.

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Lots of forecast problems, the low tracking into the tn valley makes this a pretty good freezing rain event for the the western burbs, maybe a good snow for Oakland and for us, it even looks like we would see a period of snow at the onset. For us it wouldn't last long but might look pretty. I actually think making a forecast would be fun. Time for bed so I'm lucid tomorrow.

SPI 2 or 3?

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I love the 8 am start....no chance to warm....plus we get to watch it....of course the time will change...I'd lean toward no impact for me except maybe I see some flakes or sleet initially and then just cold rain..I'm not being IMBY On this one....I have been following it for its impact west and north....I don't know if it will be ideal ice storm conditions

And then all those finite details like dp, wind direction, onset temp, and the real condition of the column come into play. All the things that make sensible wx forecasts so awful tough.

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Lots of forecast problems, the low tracking into the tn valley makes this a pretty good freezing rain event for the the western burbs, maybe a good snow for Oakland and for us, it even looks like we would see a period of snow at the onset. For us it wouldn't last long but might look pretty. I actually think making a forecast would be fun. Time for bed so I'm lucid tomorrow.

agreed...

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Lots of forecast problems, the low tracking into the tn valley makes this a pretty good freezing rain event for the the western burbs, maybe a good snow for Oakland and for us, it even looks like we would see a period of snow at the onset. For us it wouldn't last long but might look pretty. I actually think making a forecast would be fun. Time for bed so I'm lucid tomorrow.

I feel like sending you a pound of your favorite coffee for Xmas. This is setting up to be quite a headscratcher for forecasters. No envy here.

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Clown maps pull back snowfall totals a bit to the NW but still a tight gradient to the NW of the cities. Elevations like MRB etc still do pretty well, some mixing seems likely but still plenty wintry.

Christmas Eve event probably puts down coating-2" across good part of area, NW of 95 at least, on this run.

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The first event looks less impressive. I can imagine snow in the air as far east as

the I-95 corridor but accumulation stays confined out by I-81.

The Wednesday event is looking better with CAD and dry dew bulb temperatures

at the onset and then with energy transfer to the coast, areas that are already receiving

frozen precipitation don't warm up.

It sure looks like accumulating snow and sleet (DC 1-2??) with typical higher amounts

north and west.

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Looking at the 06Z GFS I would think that it probably implies a big ice storm for the 95 corridor with heavy snows just to the north and west. Looking at the surface temps it shows a strong CAD signature at the onset and yet erodes that quickly and drives the 32 line north and west of the cities. But looking at the surface winds I have difficulty believing that would be the case considering that winds stay from the NE in the 95 region draining down cold air throughout the event before switching to the NW.

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Tough to say without seeing other levels...Wes mentioned that there has been a warm layer above that means the snow would be more NW of the 850 line....still looks frozen for us right now. Right now that is my goal...our area to stay all frozen and not go to rain...want snow...would take snow/sleet...would be ok with sleet....meh freezing rain...eh..snow/sleet/freezing rain/rain....blech...freezing rain/rain...puke rain

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Tough to say without seeing other levels...Wes mentioned that there has been a warm layer above that means the snow would be more NW of the 850 line....still looks frozen for us right now. Right now that is my goal...our area to stay all frozen and not go to rain...want snow...would take snow/sleet...would be ok with sleet....meh freezing rain...eh..snow/sleet/freezing rain/rain....blech...freezing rain/rain...puke rain

I think we will see at least 3 inches

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Wes says 6z and 18z always colder so....

The evolution of the opinion on the off hour runs over the years has been interesting to say the least. A few years ago it was a joke to even mention them...mostly dt driven I think.... then I recall some well respected mets saying that the off hour runs were getting new info and were much better and statistically were showing that...now of course when the off hour runs show snow then they are probably off...pun intended.

Who knows...who cares...it's Christmas and we are tracking some potential frozen precip...way better than reading about how crappy the pattern is.

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Tough to say without seeing other levels...Wes mentioned that there has been a warm layer above that means the snow would be more NW of the 850 line....still looks frozen for us right now. Right now that is my goal...our area to stay all frozen and not go to rain...want snow...would take snow/sleet...would be ok with sleet....meh freezing rain...eh..snow/sleet/freezing rain/rain....blech...freezing rain/rain...puke rain

Twister Data has good sounds-- you get the skew T and just pure levels. Taking exactly on the 6z run-- JYO is all snow through 108. (not much wiggle room)

It's basically over by 114 with some -zr as

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6z gfs is plenty cold back here on the ground...temps in the upper 20's with plenty of precip and 850's below zero...so as of this run all of the precip appears to be frozen roughly IAD west...Christmas eve...dryer but a tad colder than 0z was

I didn't look at you but Fredrerick Maryland is all snow unless there is a break in between the good warm advection snow and the deformation zone when it dries out above -10C before the deeper clouds come back in. MY guess is you would be the same if the upper low gets south enough to put you in the deformation zone. Quite a gradient. The first sounding is for DCA at 18Z on the 26th

post-70-0-50521200-1356182582_thumb.png

The second is for Frederick

post-70-0-57782200-1356182635_thumb.png

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That is what I have noticed as well. I am still not a big fan of the off runs myself but that is just probably my bias showing from past years when they spit out BS solutions quite often.

Not true, Ji is misinterpreting what I said which isn't unusual. The off hours with this storm have seemed to be colder almost each run. the physics are the same so there is no reason that there would be a systematic bias that I can think of. I need to be more careful what I say.

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Just looking at the 500's on the 06Z GFS ensemble I would be think that screams major snowstorm DC north. The 850's tell a different story though with the freezing line North and West of DC and Baltimore during a good portion of the event.

When you post those big maps, the east always gets cut off on my screen.

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On storm number 2 - Looking at the GFS and Euro side by side.... I believe that in this range we have very good model agreement. Of course there are difference... but the overall track and set up are very close... and it seems that both models have been locked in now for the last several runs. I am actually pretty impressed with the agreement.

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That why I almost always use my screen snipper when only part of the map matters. I resize a lot too and zoom the panel in and out when the site let's you. Really helps folks on their phones too.

I use snagit but you can also use powerpoint and snip the image before saving it. Using the latter you can also annotate it if you want.

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