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A new Baby, a fresh approach


Ginx snewx

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Hey Will ... Harv and I once commiserated how 3/4 of the 1992 output fell as rain in a lot of places that received still recouped a foot to a foot and a half of snow, late.

Maybe just maybe this is pay back - muah hahahahahahaha.

I can never shake the feeling that you live in a dark basement that you nickname "the lair" or "batcave."

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It's awesome how the Mets on this forum have been pain stakingly illustrating a colder 2nd half of December for various reasons, then NCEP says this today ...

THE PNA INDEX IS FORECAST TO REMAIN NEGATIVE BY MOST 0Z GFS ENSEMBLE MEMBERS

THROUGHOUT THE NEXT TWO WEEKS ALTHOUGH SPREAD BEGINS TO INCREASE LATE IN

WEEK-2. NEAR TO ABOVE NORMAL TEMPERATURES ARE FAVORED FOR MUCH OF THE CONUS

SINCE STRONG PACIFIC FLOW IS EXPECTED TO PERSIST INTO LATE DECEMBER.

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On a side note, the new NOAA pages...yuck.

http://www.weather.gov/box/

The actual NOAA forecasts for next week have more rain in them than I'd have expected based on the talk here. Someone should give them the link.

They have some sort of snow in the forecast for like 4 straight days in the interior...which is consistent with what we have been talking about. There is a chance we end up too warm too. So they have rain or snow in a lot of the panels except Sunday night which is snow or a wintry mix....which is also probably correct as that earlier event will be coldest prob Sunday event and has the better of the two air masses.

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December 92 does become one of the most overused weenie analogs whenever there is a closed low south of SNE.

It was a very unique storm. There is a reason we havent had a repeat since. April '97 was probably the closest....but aspects of that one were definitely different too. Then the March 2010 disaster about 1C too warm.

This one as modeled does have some pretty striking similarities....but we've seen this before modeled 6-7 days out only to morph into something different as we get closer.

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Was it showing up as an anlaog earlier? My brain must be frazzled. The image Ginx posted now has Dec 2010 as the top

It was, and the euro ensembles have some similarities, but just because the h5 pattern has similarities, doesn't mean the outcome is similar. Of course it will happen again, but I cringe sometimes when it gets thrown around without understanding what the storm did.

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Was it showing up as an anlaog earlier? My brain must be frazzled. The image Ginx posted now has Dec 2010 as the top

Look at the time stamp. Yea 92 was in the mix at one time. Just remember bro its a snap in time, only shows what the upper air was similar to. Another piece of guidance to look at. I think I posted like 5 times that analogs are best used to get an idea what the Upper Air might look like.

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Look at the time stamp. Yea 92 was in the mix at one time. Just remember bro its a snap in time, only shows what the upper air was similar to. Another piece of guidance to look at. I think I posted like 5 times that analogs are best used to get an idea what the Upper Air might look like.

Gotcha - I am not expecting a Dec 1992 nor should anyone. I was just confused by how it switched/got updated.

I was also not clear on how often that even comes up as an analog for any setup

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Toss the GFS?

I wouldnt totally toss it right now...but its definitely the outlier in terms of the cold air available for system 1. It has the weakest advection and southward advance of the high. NAM (yes 84h)/Ukie/GGEM/Euro all much more impressive with it.

But we are still far enough out that it could be right. But really only for another couple runs....one camp will be wrong on that. 18z GFS did bring it slightly further south, but it was pretty negligible.

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I wouldnt totally toss it right now...but its definitely the outlier in terms of the cold air available for system 1. It has the weakest advection and southward advance of the high. NAM (yes 84h)/Ukie/GGEM/Euro all much more impressive with it.

But we are still far enough out that it could be right. But really only for another couple runs....one camp will be wrong on that. 18z GFS did bring it slightly further south, but it was pretty negligible.

The latest 15z SREF was also showing this as well, much colder air locked in.

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I wouldnt totally toss it right now...but its definitely the outlier in terms of the cold air available for system 1. It has the weakest advection and southward advance of the high. NAM (yes 84h)/Ukie/GGEM/Euro all much more impressive with it.

But we are still far enough out that it could be right. But really only for another couple runs....one camp will be wrong on that. 18z GFS did bring it slightly further south, but it was pretty negligible.

What about for the follow up system?

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The latest 15z SREF was also showing this as well, much colder air locked in.

Yeah I noticed that...they trended better from 09z. This makes me a bit skeptical of the GFS. Euro ensembles were pretty cold as well. This part of the setup isn't that far out, so I'd expect a better consesus pretty soon.

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What about for the follow up system?

I wouldn't throw anything out for the last system next week....that could really do anything at this point. The Quebec blocking would probably make a Detroit track pretty tough...but outside from that, anything from a suppressed track to a big inland Apps runner is possible.

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I wouldn't throw anything out for the last system next week....that could really do anything at this point. The Quebec blocking could probably make a Detroit track pretty tough...but outside from that, anything from a suppressed track to a big inland Apps runner is possible.

Thanks Will

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