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Sandy speculation thread


snowstormcanuck

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What, you don't like a landfalling Hurricane that far north?

Well it is going to ruin some people's plans for that day if that verifies! Hopefully it won't come ashore as a major hurricane.

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It's interesting to see the lake effect precipitation being shown now for the western side of LM.

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Well it is going to ruin some people's plans for that day if that verifies! Hopefully it won't come ashore as a major hurricane.

Seems like a 1 in a million shot (ok maybe not that extreme but you get the point). Land interaction/shear should keep this somewhat in check in the next few days. It might steady out/strengthen some as it transitions but then the question becomes at what point is it no longer considered tropical?

May be a cat 1 but going into Jamaica in a strengthening phase...not so good for them.

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The 12z GFS trended closer towards the Euro and eventually does bring Sandy's remnants into Maine. It is much more aggressive in digging a trough in the Great Lakes and argues for some snow on the eastern edge of this sub-forum. It's actually a decent Lake Enhanced Snow setup off of Lake Erie with a deep cyclonic flow...high mid level RH's and 850's of sub -6C.

Edit: Looks like the western lakes get in on the action as well.

Given that the GFS has generally been the least phased with Sandy/the Great Lakes trough out of most modeling and still, with this extremely late capture scenario, brings some snow chances and breezy conditions into this subforum, the trends for right now are going that direction.

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The 12z GFS trended closer towards the Euro and eventually does bring Sandy's remnants into Maine. It is much more aggressive in digging a trough in the Great Lakes and argues for some snow on the eastern edge of this sub-forum. It's actually a decent Lake Enhanced Snow setup off of Lake Erie with a deep cyclonic flow...high mid level RH's and 850's of sub -6C.

Edit: Looks like the western lakes get in on the action as well.

Given that the GFS has generally been the least phased with Sandy/the Great Lakes trough out of most modeling and still, with this extremely late capture scenario, brings some snow chances and breezy conditions into this subforum, the trends for right now are going that direction.

The capture scenario seems to be gaining steam...mainly just a question of when and where. Should be able to nail that down in the next couple days with additional data ingestion.

12z GGEM has a 945 mb low almost right over Boston at 144 hours.

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12z Euro is teasing stebo land...pulling for the NW trend for you buddy

Landfall happens farther down the coast on this run. Sandy is moving at a decent clip right now. I have seen some speculation about a faster movement meaning a track farther east but I'm not sure if that is an automatic assumption given all the moving parts.

There are some monsters on the 12z GEFS. Wish we could see the individual Euro ensembles.

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This is something...off hour soundings coming for every part of the country.

SENIOR DUTY METEOROLOGIST NWS ADMINISTRATIVE MESSAGE

NWS NCEP CENTRAL OPERATIONS COLLEGE PARK MD

1813Z WED OCT 24 2012

DUE TO THE HIGH VARIABILITY IN THE FORECAST TRACK OF

HURRICANE SANDY.. SPECIAL SOUNDINGS ARE REQUESTED

BEGINNING 18Z THURSDAY 25 OCT 2012... ALL REGIONAL

DIRECTORS HAVE APPROVED THE SPECIAL SOUNDING RELEASE

SCHEDULE BELOW.. IF THERE ARE ANY QUESTIONS CONTACT YOUR

REGION OR THE SDM...

***SPECIAL 06Z/18Z SOUNDING REQUESTS***

WESTERN REGION THROUGH 12Z SATURDAY...

CENTRAL REGION THROUGH 12Z MONDAY...

EASTERN REGION THROUGH 12Z TUESDAY...

SOUTHERN REGION THROUGH 12Z TUESDAY...

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I think it is the amping of the northern stream that is key, the more it digs, the more Sandy gets gets pulled west into a non-tropical bomb ala 1950. The 12z Euro OP was a touch more amped and it pulled it in a touch more west and stronger inland.

Yeah that is definitely very important. The overall pattern resembles what has been seen for some of the legendary storms to impact the eastern 1/3 of the US.

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The Euro is still holding fairly strong whereas the GFS has slowly, somewhat shifted towards the Euro, with the GGEM stuck somewhere in-between. It'll be interesting to see, what happens in the end but if the Euro were to verify that'd be some hectic rain and winds and maybe some flakes? LOL. lets see.

nce cold outbreak next week though, depicted on the 12z Euro.

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BUF getting giddy. One way or another, the 2012-13 cold weather season is sure kicking off with some excitement.

THE SUNDAY THROUGH WEDNESDAY TIME FRAME IS A PRIME CASE FOR NOT LOOKING AT INDIVIDUAL MODEL OUTPUT AND INSTEAD FOCUSING ON ENSEMBLE DATA. NOT ONLY THAT...IN THIS CASE YOU CANNOT RELY ON ENSEMBLE MEANS...BUT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH OF THE MEMBERS AND WATCH FOR TRENDS AND ENSEMBLE-MEMBER-PREFERRED SOLUTIONS. I HAVE RARELY SEEN SUCH A PERFECT CASE FOR CHAOS THEORY SO WILLINGLY SHOWING ITS UGLY FACE...WITH FINELY TUNED MODELS PRODUCING SUCH EXTREME OUTCOMES.

ALTHOUGH THERE ARE INFINITE SOLUTIONS TO THE CURRENTLY EVOLVING PATTERN...IN GENERAL IT SHOULD BE QUITE CLEAR THAT THERE WILL BE AN IMPRESSIVE-TO-EXTREME TROPICAL-TO-EXTRATROPICAL SYSTEM DEVELOPING OFF THE EAST COAST THIS WEEKEND AND INTO EARLY NEXT WEEK...ONE THAT WILL HAVE PAPERS WRITTEN ABOUT IT IN YEARS TO COME. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COVER EACH OF THE VARYING SOLUTIONS....BUT WE CAN ROUGHLY BREAK IT DOWN INTO THREE POSSIBLE OUTCOMES:

1 - SANDY MOVES INLAND...BECOMES EXTRATROPICAL WHILE ITS REMNANT CONTINUES TO MOVE WESTWARD INTO SOMEWHERE WITHIN NYS. THIS PRODUCES A WHOLE BUNCH OF RARE FORECAST ISSUES...WITH HEAVY RAIN...HIGHER ELEVATION SNOW...AND A NE WIND MONDAY INTO TUESDAY.

2 - SANDY MOVES INTO NEW ENGLAND...BECOMES EXTRATROPICAL BEFORE OR AFTER LANDFALL...BUT A SECONDARY SYSTEM FORCES NEW LOW DEVELOPMENT INLAND WITH COLD AIR MOVING IN FROM THE WEST AND A SURGE OF TROPICAL MOISTURE WRAPPING AROUND THE DYING EXTRATROPICAL SYSTEM. THIS TOO WOULD PRODUCE AN ELEVATION SNOW EVENT...WITH LOTS OF RAIN AND POSSIBLY SOME WIND TOO MONDAY AND TUESDAY.

3 - SANDY MOVES HARMLESSLY OUT TO SEA AND BECOMES A FANTASTIC FISH STORM. ANOTHER SYSTEM EVOLVES AND SPREADS PRECIPITATION ACROSS THE REGION...OR MAYBE THIS SYSTEM DOES NOT EVEN EXIST.

WITH SUCH WILDLY VARYING SOLUTIONS...WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO FORECAST A CHANCE OF RAIN...AND HIGHER ELEVATION SNOW SUNDAY NIGHT THROUGH MONDAY NIGHT. ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN...TEMPERATURES SHOULD BE ON THE COOL TO COLD SIDE COMPARED TO THURSDAY AND FRIDAY.

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If you look closer, that is a secondary low that forms from Sandy due to part of it occluding back to the west. Sandy is there to the far right.

I don't know...I went backwards through the run and it seems that it is indeed Sandy. It has it passing off the west coast of Florida so that is a "test" to see how this model does.

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