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October 28-31 Storm


SpartyOn

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Well, it could be a white Halloween in the Louisville/South Indiana area if this proves to be true :P LOL

The 500mb Vortmax here that may end up being the main cause of the potential snowfall in the Ohio Valley. Unreal LOL

Lol. Any potential for white stuff (I won't type the "S" word until November) will end up being closer to Chicago or Detroit than Louisville. It's looking like it will be another fun system to track though.

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Excellent discussion from Jon Hitchcock out of NWS Buffalo regarding the potential for late next week:

LONG TERM /WEDNESDAY THROUGH SATURDAY/

AT THE START OF THE LONG TERM PERIOD ON WEDNESDAY ANOTHER

PROGRESSIVE LOW PRESSURE WILL BE MOVING OVER OR JUST NORTH OF THE

LOWER LAKES REGION. THIS WILL BRING YET ANOTHER CHANCE OF SHOWERS...

ALTHOUGH AMOUNTS LOOK RELATIVELY LIGHT WITH LITTLE DEEPER MOISTURE

FEED FROM THE SOUTH GIVEN THE FAST MOTION OF THE SYSTEM AND ZONAL

NATURE OF THE MID/UPPER LEVEL FLOW REGIME.

BY THURSDAY EXTENSIVE SURFACE RIDGING WILL BUILD FROM THE NORTHERN

PLAINS ACROSS THE UPPER GREAT LAKES AND INTO THE SAINT LAWRENCE

VALLEY. THIS SHOULD BE CLOSE ENOUGH TO DRY OUT THE MAJORITY OF THE

REGION...ALTHOUGH LATEST MEDIUM RANGE MODELS SUGGEST SOME LIGHT QPF

POSSIBLY HANGING NEAR THE PA/NY STATE LINE. TEMPS WILL COOL

SIGNIFICANTLY BY THURSDAY AS A CHILLY AIRMASS PUSHES STEADILY SOUTH

OUT OF CANADA.

TOWARD THE END OF NEXT WEEK THE FORECAST BECOMES MUCH MORE UNCERTAIN

AND MUCH MORE INTERESTING. THE NORTHERN HEMISPHERIC FLOW REGIME

REMAINS SUPPORTIVE OF VERY ACTIVE WEATHER ACROSS EASTERN NORTH

AMERICA. A WELL DEFINED MJO EPISODE IS ORBITING THROUGH PHASE 2 OF

THE WHEELER PHASE/SPACE PLOT...WHICH SUPPORTS BELOW AVERAGE

TEMPERATURES AND ABOVE AVERAGE PRECIP IN THE EASTERN US. ASSOCIATED

WITH THIS...A ROSSBY WAVE DISPERSION RECENTLY TOOK PLACE ACROSS THE

WESTERN PACIFIC...WHICH IS LEADING TO STRONG PATTERN AMPLIFICATION

ACROSS MUCH OF THE PACIFIC TODAY. THIS WILL CONTINUE TO PROPAGATE

DOWNSTREAM...WITH THE VAST MAJORITY OF MODEL AND ENSEMBLE GUIDANCE

INDICATING THE POTENTIAL FOR HIGHLY AMPLIFIED FLOW ACROSS NORTH

AMERICA LATE NEXT WEEK WITH A DEEP TROUGH ACROSS THE EAST.

WHILE CONFIDENCE IS INCREASING IN A SIGNIFICANT EVENT LATE NEXT

WEEK...THE TIMING AND TRACK DETAILS REMAIN VERY UNCERTAIN. THE

LATEST 12Z ECMWF REMAINS CONSISTENT IN TAKING A STRONG LOW BY JUST

TO OUR SOUTH AND EAST...WITH A SIGNIFICANT EARLY SEASON WET SNOW A

POSSIBILITY. THE GFS HAS BEEN FLIP FLOPPING FROM RUN TO RUN...WITH

THE LATEST 12Z RUN TAKING A SUPPRESSED LOW TO OUR SOUTH WITH JUST

SOME LIGHT SNOW THURSDAY NIGHT INTO FRIDAY. A LOOK AT THE 12Z GEFS

ENSEMBLE MEMBERS SHOW A WIDE VARIETY OF POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS WITH SOME

MEMBERS TAKING STRONG A STRONG LOW OVER OR JUST WEST OF WESTERN NY

IN A CLASSIC GREAT LAKES CUTTER TRACK...AND SOME CLOSER TO THE ECMWF

SOLUTION.

GIVEN THE INHERENT UNCERTAINTIES AT THIS TIME RANGE...WILL SIMPLY GO

WITH CHANCE POPS FOR A RAIN/SNOW MIX FOR THURSDAY NIGHT THROUGH

FRIDAY FOR NOW WITH TEMPERATURES DROPPING WELL BELOW AVERAGE. IT

WILL LIKELY BE SEVERAL DAYS BEFORE CONFIDENCE BEGINS TO GROW ON THE

DETAILS...BUT THIS CERTAINLY BEARS WATCHING.

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Here is the long-term Area Forecast Discussion from the NWS in Cleveland at 349pm this afternoon...

LONG TERM /TUESDAY NIGHT THROUGH SATURDAY/

A WARM FRONT WILL AFFECT THE AREA TUESDAY NIGHT AND THEN A COLD

FRONT MOVES THROUGH WEDNESDAY. ANOTHER BATCH OF RAIN WILL MOVE IN

WEDNESDAY NIGHT AHEAD OF A LOW THAT WILL BE MOVING THROUGH THE OHIO

AND TENNESSEE VALLEYS.

BEGINNING WED IN THE LONG TERM BOTH GFS AND ECMWF SHOWING LOW

PRESSURE MOVING ACROSS THE CENTRAL/NORTHERN GREAT LAKES WITH THE

TRAILING COLD FRONT PUSHING ACROSS THE REGION THROUGH THE DAY. THE

COLD FRONT PUSHES SOUTHWARD NEAR THE OHIO VALLEY DURING

THURSDAY...BUT THEN ATTENTION TURNS TO THE SOUTHWEST WITH BOTH

MODELS PICKING UP ON A RATHER STRONG UPPER TROUGH WITH DEVELOPING

LOW PRESSURE OVER THE CENTRAL/SOUTHERN PLAINS LATER IN THE WEEK. GFS

AND LATEST ECMWF SHOWING RATHER DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS WITH THE GFS

FURTHER SOUTH WHILE ECMWF HAS LOW IMPACTING THE AREA. GIVEN THE

INCONSISTENCY AT THIS TIME WILL CONTINUE WITH THE CHC POPS FOR THE

ENTIRE AREA. DEPENDING ON INTENSITY OF THE LOW AND IT/S TRACK THE

ECMWF QUITE A BIT COLDER COMPARED TO GFS. GIVEN THIS EVENT IS AT THE

VERY END OF THE FCST PERIOD WILL MAKE MINOR ADJUSTMENTS FROM

PREVIOUS FORECAST COMPARED TO LATEST MEX TEMPS.

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FYI and FWIW, 06z GFS would have been all snow and a nice hit for much of lower Michigan, far NE Indiana and far NW Ohio.

We would probably start out as a snow/mix here before transitioning to rain, especially east of US-23. But even then we would have gotten some reasonable wrap around thanks to the strong height falls.

This is all based on the 1300m thickness values BTW, usually a good measure for the rain/snow line IMO.

It'll be an interesting system to watch.

EDIT: I understand everything about the verbatim and off-run mess, but it still nice eye candy considering that time of year is almost here. See for yourselves. If it did happen, then let it come on the weekend please.

http://raleighwx.americanwx.com/models/g...now174.gif

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FYI and FWIW, 06z GFS would have been all snow and a nice hit for much of lower Michigan, far NE Indiana and far NW Ohio.

We would probably start out as a snow/mix here before transitioning to rain, especially east of US-23. But even then we would have gotten some reasonable wrap around thanks to the strong height falls.

This is all based on the 1300m thickness values BTW, usually a good measure for the rain/snow line IMO.

It'll be an interesting system to watch.

EDIT: I understand everything about the vferbatim and off-run mess, but it still nice eye candy considering that time of year is almost year. See for yourselves. If it did happen, then let it come on the weekend please.

http://raleighwx.americanwx.com/models/g...now174.gif

:gun_bandana:

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still early but the usual winter thread starters should be starting the threads as we head into winter for superstitious purposes IMO :thumbsup: , no offense to Sparty

12z GEM at 144hr

Ends up with a weakening low moving along the OH River...

UKMET is a lot more progressive with this system. ECMWF has a weak surface wave moving across the Apps, some precip over IN/OH. EPS control has a Miller B/Inland runner hybrid... you would drool over the amount of cold air it has.

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FYI and FWIW, 06z GFS would have been all snow and a nice hit for much of lower Michigan, far NE Indiana and far NW Ohio.

We would probably start out as a snow/mix here before transitioning to rain, especially east of US-23. But even then we would have gotten some reasonable wrap around thanks to the strong height falls.

This is all based on the 1300m thickness values BTW, usually a good measure for the rain/snow line IMO.

It'll be an interesting system to watch.

EDIT: I understand everything about the verbatim and off-run mess, but it still nice eye candy considering that time of year is almost here. See for yourselves. If it did happen, then let it come on the weekend please.

http://raleighwx.americanwx.com/models/g...now174.gif

All you need to hope is that it hangs on for three or four more days, then you can start feeling confident it isn't a dream run.:whistle: Seriously, I'm curious, were there any fantasy runs that showed big snowstorms this early in the region last year? How rare is it for the GFS to show a winter storm in fantasy land in late October?

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Yet another disco throwing that s word around - IWX:

A SOUTHERN STREAM POSITIVE PV ANOMALY WILL PIVOT THROUGH BASE OF TROUGH INTO THE SRN PLAINS AND MID/LOWER MS RIVER VALLEY BY LATE THURSDAY/FRIDAY. THIS WILL LIKELY INTERACT WITH THE BAROCLINIC ZONE IN PLACE TO SUPPORT ANOTHER FALL MID LATITUDE CYCLONE SOMEWHERE ACROSS THE EASTERN CONUS AROUND FRIDAY. INTENSITY/TRACK/AMPLITUDE OF THIS WAVE AND ITS POTENTIAL INTERACTION WITH ANOTHER NRN STREAM WAVE ARE HIGHLY UNCERTAIN THIS FAR IN ADVANCE. A CONSENSUS FAVORS LOW POPS ATTM LOCALLY WITH IMPACTS FROM A DEEPENING SFC CYCLONE PRIMARILY MISSING TO THE SOUTH AND EAST. THIS IS DEFINITELY WORTH WATCHING AS SOMEWHERE ACROSS THE GREAT LAKES COULD SEE SOME SNOW ON THE BACKSIDE OF THIS SYSTEM IF A MORE AMPLIFIED/PHASED SOLUTION (SEEN IN SOME ENSEMBLE DATA) VERIFIES.

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lol. You really are pulling for the snowstorm aren't you? How about I call for a historically warm December. After my July and October flops, it may pan out lol.

Not at all...see a couple posts upstream. Rainstorms are just fine.

And yes it probably wouldn't hurt if you called for a torch winter. ;)

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Even the farther north maps aren't snow, just a blob of cold rain. Yeah, October snow is useless.

I understand your passion but don't run cuz of 1 weird day in model world. What we know now is consistent. The overall consensus is a deepening system to traverse the GL region late next week. I personally won't even think about precip type until 3 days. Either way we could have another powerful system to entertain us. Frozen precip is a plus but so is incredible amounts of wind driven rain.

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Here is the long-term Area Forecast Discussion from the NWS in Cleveland as of 1220pm edt today...

LONG TERM /THURSDAY THROUGH SATURDAY/

THE MODELS ARE SIMILAR FOR THE EXTENDED PERIOD AND THE FORECAST

REMAINS PRETTY MUCH THE SAME. AFTER THE COLD FRONT SLIDES ACROSS THE

AREA ON WEDNESDAY... A WAVE DEVELOPS ON THE FRONT AND A COLD RAIN

LIKELY DEVELOPS ON THURSDAY. JUST HOW FAR NORTH THE SURFACE LOW OR

INVERTED TROUGH MOVES IS UNSURE BUT GIVEN THE STRONG POSITIVELY

TILTED JET AND THE SHALLOW NORTH FLOW OF COLD BOUNDARY LAYER AIR...

THERE SHOULD BE A LARGE AREA OF OVER RUNNING RAIN.

AS THE SYSTEM EXITS THURSDAY NIGHT... THE 850 MB TEMPERATURE IS

PROGGED TO DROP TO ABOUT -4C WITH BOUNDARY LAYER TEMPERATURES AROUND

+2C. THE BUFKIT SOUNDINGS DRY OUT QUITE A BIT BUT THERE IS ROOM IN

THE BOUNDARY LAYER FOR LAKE EFFECT/LAKE ENHANCED PRECIPITATION.

WILL MENTION A CHANCE OF RAIN AND SNOW ACROSS NE OH/NW PA.

BRIEF RIDGING APPEARS ON TRACK FOR FRIDAY ALTHOUGH SOME LAKE EFFECT

COULD LINGER ACROSS EXTREME NE OH/NW PA. YET ANOTHER TROUGH IS

PROGGED TO DIG ACROSS THE GREAT LAKES BY SATURDAY. TEMPERATURES

SEEMINGLY WILL NOT HAVE A CHANCE TO RECOVER MUCH IF AT ALL AND HIGHS

WILL HOLD MAINLY IN THE 40S WITH LOWS IN THE 30S THROUGH THE

PERIOD.

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