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Hurricane Irene - Discussion V


Baroclinic Zone

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Already 7,000 without power in york county maine

And it looks like many on here as well........... :(

Still up and running here in coastal Cumberland County. Squally as bands race through, but nothing remarkable. Will be interesting to see whether the really high winds can mix down this afternoon.

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Still up and running here in coastal Cumberland County. Squally as bands race through, but nothing remarkable. Will be interesting to see whether the really high winds can mix down this afternoon.

Yeah, Wind has been marginal here so far but we have had 2 TS overnight and this am and .55" rain so far

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BOS verifies a blizzard based on past 3 hour winds. Just inland a few miles it's heavy rain and breezy......IOW....I would have killed myself if I lost any sleep.

Lots of power outages etc, the impact is real, the "hurricane" is not.

We're struggling to get even sustained tropical force conditions in a lot of places east of the center. Falmouth just came close. I was down in Onset, there are trees down and the power is out. Water is really high. Shot some video earlier on the water.

But again, where's the beef on the winds. We're definitely getting tropical storm force gusts, but shouldn't a hurricane be able to provide sustained hurricane conditions somewhere?

Awesome storm though.

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Disagree for TAN. The wind has been worse than in a winter storm.

Look back at the 12/05 storm as a point of reference, KTAN employee in Taunton measured 81mph.

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/box/climate/snowrpts/snowstormJan2224-2005

80+ down here. 60+ in PYM. The 12/05 storm was even more impressive in both locations. That's two winter storms in 12 months.

I know what you're saying and understand it. I'm just saying leaves being on the trees and unfrozen grounds play a big part too.

Meanwhile it's getting fugly here now, Will was right. Worst of it right now.

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Look back at the 12/05 storm as a point of reference, KTAN employee in Taunton measured 81mph.

http://www.erh.noaa....ormJan2224-2005

80+ down here. 60+ in PYM. The 12/05 storm was even more impressive in both locations. That's two winter storms in 12 months.

I know what you're saying and understand it. I'm just saying leaves being on the trees and unfrozen grounds play a big part too.

Meanwhile it's getting fugly here now, Will was right. Worst of it right now.

From that link

TAUNTON 48.0 623 AM 1/23 TAN ASOS

Today I had 50kts - 58mph

Winds were worse today at TAN.

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From that link

TAUNTON 48.0 623 AM 1/23 TAN ASOS

Today I had 50kts - 58mph

Winds were worse today at TAN.

Yeah but pretty much everyone e and s of you it was far worse 12/05 and we all lived. Most of us didn't lose power then either. Has as much to do with the canopy and wet ground as it did strength of wind.

Nobody got anywhere near the winds from 12/2005, and I'll take the word that the NWS employee was accurate in measuring 81mph in Taunton on that day which greatly exceeded todays "hurricane".

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Yeah but pretty much everyone e and s of you it was far worse 12/05 and we all lived. Most of us didn't lose power then either. Has as much to do with the canopy and wet ground as it did strength of wind.

Nobody got anywhere near the winds from 12/2005, and I'll take the word that the NWS employee was accurate in measuring 81mph in Taunton on that day which greatly exceeded todays "hurricane".

Where is the 81mph in that report? I scoured it and did not see any 81mph reading at TAN.

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There is no 81 MPH report from the Jan 2005 Blizzard. LOL.

I wasn't talking about the 1/2005 blizzard, I was talking about the 12/2005 early december mini-cane that developed and moved across the area and delivered winds way stronger than anything measured yesterday. You had a snowstorm with more impressive winds in the last six years by far than yesterday. (I see the confusion, I was talking about and referenced 12/05, but accidentally posted the link for 1/05 out of my favorites links...that's where we were getting crossed)

This is the link I meant to post http://www.erh.noaa....s/DEC9_2005.txt

PNSBOX CTZ002>004-MAZ002>024-026-NHZ011-012-015-RIZ001>008-141200-

PUBLIC INFORMATION STATEMENT...UPDATED FOR WIND INFO NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE TAUNTON MA 253 PM EST TUE DEC 13 2005 STORM DATE: DEC 9, 2005 ...

HURRICANE FORCE WIND GUSTS CAUSED WIDESPREAD TREE AND POWER LINE DAMAGE ON CAPE COD AND THE ISLANDS LAST FRIDAY DECEMBER 9 2005...

UPDATED INFO... THE RAPID INTENSIFICATION OF THE STORM SYSTEM CAUSED A VERY UNUSUAL SUDDEN INCREASE IN WINDS...RIGHT AS THE WINDS SHIFTED TO THE NORTHWEST. THE FOLLOWING ARE SOME WIND REPORTS FROM THE STORM ON DECEMBER 9TH. PLEASE NOTE THAT VARIOUS TYPES OF WIND EQUIPMENT HAVE DIFFERENT WIND SAMPLING TIME AVERAGES. IN THE CASE OF THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ASOS UNITS...IT IS A 5-SECOND AVERAGE. 105 MPH...MEASURED BY PUBLIC...REPORTED BY EMERGENCY MANAGER... ON BLOCK ISLAND. ANEMOMETER ATOP ROOF...40 FT OFF THE GROUND...WITH UNOBSTRUCTED PATH FROM OCEAN.

ADDITIONAL REPORTS FROM BLOCK ISLAND RANGED FROM 78 MPH TO 94 MPH.

101 MPH...MEASURED BY PUBLIC IN WELLFLEET MA. REPORTED BY CAPE COD RADIO STATION.

100 MPH...MEASURED BY PUBLIC IN ORLEANS MA IN THE TOWN COVE SECTION.

96 MPH...MEASURED BY AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR IN EASTHAM BEFORE THE ANEMOMETER WAS KNOCKED DOWN BY A FALLING TREE.

94 MPH...MEASURED ATOP A BLUFF OVERLOOKING NANTUCKET HARBOR.

93 MPH...MEASURED AT CAPE WIND TOWER AT ELEVATION OF 20 METERS NEAR NANUCKET.

89 MPH...MEASURED BY AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR IN BREWSTER MA.

82 MPH...MEASURED BY PUBLIC IN KATAMA ON MARTHAS VINEYARD MA.

82 MPH...AT 44029 BUOY OFF OF CAPE ANN MA

81 MPH...MEASURED BY NWS EMPLOYEE IN TAUNTON MA

76 MPH...MEASURED BY BLUE HILL SCIENCE CENTER EMPLOYEE IN YARMOUTHPORT MA BEFORE THE POWER WENT OUT.

75 MPH...MEASURED BY AMATEUR RADIO OPERATOR IN CHATHAM MA.

73 MPH...MEASURED BY NWS SPOTTER IN MANOMET SECTION OF PLYMOUTH MA.

64 MPH...NWS ASOS OBSERVATION AT NANTUCKET MA (ACK).

64 MPH...NWS ASOS OBSERVATION AT CHATHAM MA (CQX) BEFORE THE POWER WAS LOST. IN ADDITION...THE CHATHAM POLICE DEPT. REPORTED HAVING SIGHTED WATERSPOUTS LATE IN THE AFTERNOON ON FRIDAY.

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the 8 to 10 hours of 50 to 70 mph gusts yesterday were more impressive than 12/05.

This. I had frequent gusts 40+kts for like 2 hours yesterday. The Dec 2005 mini-cane that Meesenger is alluding to was a squall line that lasted about 10 mins. Not comparable. That did not cause any damage like yesterday. Also the Dec 2005 at TAN only gusted to 37kts. I am going to gander that the NWS gust was measured at the BOX offices on the other side of town 8 miles away. Here are the 2 daily ASOS reports. Not even close. It's laughable to try and compare the 2 days.

http://www.wundergro...eq_statename=NA

http://www.wundergro...ilyHistory.html

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This. I had frequent gusts 40+kts for like 2 hours yesterday. The Dec 2005 mini-cane that Meesenger is alluding to was a squall line that lasted about 10 mins. Not comparable. That did not cause any damage like yesterday. Also the Dec 2005 at TAN only gusted to 37kts. I am going to gander that the NWS gust was measured at the BOX offices on the other side of town 8 miles away. Here are the 2 daily ASOS reports. Not even close. It's laughable to try and compare the 2 days.

http://www.wundergro...eq_statename=NA

http://www.wundergro...ilyHistory.html

It didn't do as much damage because there were no leaves on the trees and the ground was partially frozen.

The winds were much stronger over a large portion of SE MA and Cape Cod than the hurricane, it wasn't a couple of minutes in many areas. It knocked out power for days in many areas.

A NWS employee measured 81mph winds in your town. I'll take their word it was accurate. That exceeded any reports from yesterday in that immediate area, obviously the damage was more extensive yesterday.

Places like ACK had stronger winds in the winter storm http://www.wundergro...eq_statename=NA

same with PYM...they had an outage during the storm, but I'm not sure much was missed. Stations went down in 05 too.

http://www.wundergro...eq_statename=NA

The point was we get winds similar to yesterday more than most think. Trees with leaves and rain played a huge role yesterday.

This wasn't a comparison of the two. MPH for MPH, the point was the 05 winter storm produced stronger winds in PARTS of SNE than the "hurricane"...

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It's a moderate tropical storm with a lot of damaging rains and winds for the inland areas that don't normally see it.

Not bad at all down here, winter storms are much worse in terms of sustained pummelation.

Disagree for TAN. The wind has been worse than in a winter storm.

Look back at the 12/05 storm as a point of reference, KTAN employee in Taunton measured 81mph.

http://www.erh.noaa....ormJan2224-2005

80+ down here. 60+ in PYM. The 12/05 storm was even more impressive in both locations. That's two winter storms in 12 months.

I know what you're saying and understand it. I'm just saying leaves being on the trees and unfrozen grounds play a big part too.

Meanwhile it's getting fugly here now, Will was right. Worst of it right now.

It didn't do as much damage because there were no leaves on the trees and the ground was partially frozen.

The winds were much stronger over a large portion of SE MA and Cape Cod than the hurricane, it wasn't a couple of minutes in many areas. It knocked out power for days in many areas.

A NWS employee measured 81mph winds in your town. I'll take their word it was accurate. That exceeded any reports from yesterday in that immediate area, obviously the damage was more extensive yesterday.

Places like ACK had stronger winds in the winter storm http://www.wundergro...eq_statename=NA

same with PYM...they had an outage during the storm, but I'm not sure much was missed. Stations went down in 05 too.

http://www.wundergro...eq_statename=NA

The point was we get winds similar to yesterday more than most think. Trees with leaves and rain played a huge role yesterday.

This wasn't a comparison of the two. MPH for MPH, the point was the 05 winter storm produced stronger winds in PARTS of SNE than the "hurricane"...

Back to my original point, which you've seemed to overlook.. Irene was worse than any storm that I have ever witnessed in the time that I have been here(7 years) as far as impact. I don't doubt any report from a NSW employee, but TAN is not manned by any NWS employee. It is an automated ASOS. I can find no data that exceeded yesterdays that I can locate for TAN, not BOX. they are 2 completely different locations. I live 1/2m of TAN and like 8-1/2 miles from BOX. You have not shown me ay data or information to prove me otherwise.

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Back to my original point, which you've seemed to overlook.. Irene was worse than any storm that I have ever witnessed in the time that I have been here(7 years) as far as impact. I don't doubt any report from a NSW employee, but TAN is not manned by any NWS employee. It is an automated ASOS. I can find no data that exceeded yesterdays that I can locate for TAN, not BOX. they are 2 completely different locations. I live 1/2m of TAN and like 8-1/2 miles from BOX. You have not shown me ay data or information to prove me otherwise.

I'm not trying to convince you the wind blew harder on your roof yesterday vs 2005. I'm saying that recorded winds were far greater for an unpredicted, regular old snowstorm in December 2005 over a big portion of SE MA and RI. Nobody got near 100mph winds yesterday around here, even for a few seconds.

If we had those same 100 mph gusts yesterday or even solid 80+ for a few seconds in the same areas it would have been a total disaster. That's all I'm saying.

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