TalcottWx Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 But it's important to know the difference. If you read a SWODY from the SPC, you'll see mentions of helicity. You'll never see much talk about that in a winter storm disco. I am having a little bit of difficulty understanding despite the many descriptions. I am a visual learner, unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJBASHB Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Why is absolute geostrophic vorticity weak (weak inertial stability) at the right entrance region of the jet streak? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I am having a little bit of difficulty understanding despite the many descriptions. I am a visual learner, unfortunately. Helicity= spin for tornadoes. Vorticity= spin to create storms. That's as basic as we can put it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 how can you tell that on the h5 charts? I hear people always saying is going negative..or positive, but I can never tell. Look at the orientation of the isobars, if they align SW to NE then positive tilt n to s then neutral SE to NW then negative. The best analogy I have found when trying to understand weather in the upper levels is to think of a stream of water, put a big rock in the middle of the flow, watch the eddies spin off, the rock being high pressure, the eddies low, the faster the stream the faster the eddies, the bigger the rock the bigger the effect downstream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typhoon Tip Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Helicity= spin for tornadoes. Vorticity= spin to create storms. That's as basic as we can put it. I'd add that vorticity is an actual planetary force, where helicity is a potential for spin, but yea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Ok, here is one that is used all the time how to read on the maps ( upper level )and define.. - NA0 + PNA also the whol MJO, sometimes you guys poinit out different phases..and how they are more conductive to storms in the NE.. thanks! Homework http://www.cpc.noaa.gov/data/teledoc/telecontents.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Analog96 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Homework http://www.cpc.noaa....econtents.shtml NAO= difference between pressure near Iceland and near Greenland. PNA= ridge vs trough in the East vs the West +PNA= trough East, ridge West -PNA= ridge East, trough West -NAO= Greenland block, higher pressure in Greenland than Iceland. +NAO= no Greenland block. Lower pressure in Greenland than Iceland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bostonseminole Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Look at the orientation of the isobars, if they align SW to NE then positive tilt n to s then neutral SE to NW then negative. The best analogy I have found when trying to understand weather in the upper levels is to think of a stream of water, put a big rock in the middle of the flow, watch the eddies spin off, the rock being high pressure, the eddies low, the faster the stream the faster the eddies, the bigger the rock the bigger the effect downstream. Homework http://www.cpc.noaa....econtents.shtml THANKS, will do my homework and check back tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bostonseminole Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 NAO= difference between pressure near Iceland and near Greenland. PNA= ridge vs trough in the East vs the West +PNA= trough East, ridge West -PNA= ridge East, trough West -NAO= Greenland block, higher pressure in Greenland than Iceland. +NAO= no Greenland block. Lower pressure in Greenland than Iceland. thanks!! -NA0 and + PNA are good set ups for the NE correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 THANKS, will do my homework and check back tomorrow. That page links to amazing research and explanations. I think I spent one entire week reading and trying to understand MJO, Strato warming is my new kick, why and what causes it. I still think despite some assertions here, this years volcano activity is part of the reason the AO has been so negative that and solar minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 thanks!! -NA0 and + PNA are good set ups for the NE correct? La la la lock it up with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisStraight Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I find this link to be helpful as Im learning. http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 I find this link to be helpful as Im learning. http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/ Yeppers that is great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chill Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hey all, cold and snow obsessed newbie here myself..... great site and learning a lot from it. I'm right at the Southern tip of Sebago Lake, Maine. I'm sure I'll be frequenting this particular thread often, as I've already got quite a few questions answered. Mostly abbreviations is where you lose me. The cold finally arrived here tonight, down to 33.6 and dropping quick, and snowing at a pretty good clip to boot! It's even sticking to the pavement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaineJayhawk Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Hey all, cold and snow obsessed newbie here myself..... great site and learning a lot from it. I'm right at the Southern tip of Sebago Lake, Maine. I'm sure I'll be frequenting this particular thread often, as I've already got quite a few questions answered. Mostly abbreviations is where you lose me. The cold finally arrived here tonight, down to 33.6 and dropping quick, and snowing at a pretty good clip to boot! It's even sticking to the pavement... Hello, neighbor. Good people here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 This is true, but meteorologists also use mb instead of altitude, because of the variations in surface elevation. Here in the East coast, we often talk about the 850 mb temps being such and such. In Denver, Colorado, 850 mb is actually UNDER the surface! I know that YOU know this, but I am writing this for some of the people who don't. What is their reference point then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukon Cornelius Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Great thread! I always hear the term upper level low. What is the difference between an upper level low and a lower level low (surface low?)? Is the merging of the upper level low and surface low one of the ingredients for mod-heavy snow snowstorms? Also, in contrast, is there a such thing as an upper level high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisStraight Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 What does it mean when you guys say a low has occluded? How can I detect this on the models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Look at the orientation of the isobars, if they align SW to NE then positive tilt n to s then neutral SE to NW then negative. The best analogy I have found when trying to understand weather in the upper levels is to think of a stream of water, put a big rock in the middle of the flow, watch the eddies spin off, the rock being high pressure, the eddies low, the faster the stream the faster the eddies, the bigger the rock the bigger the effect downstream. That was really really good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I find this link to be helpful as Im learning. http://www.theweathe....com/habyhints/ now bookmarked Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 E What does it mean when you guys say a low has occluded? How can I detect this on the models? Occlusion means there is no difference in the air masses in a storm, fronts have disappeared and as a result lift and dynamics wane. On a model the warm sector is gone when looking at level temps, on a surface map an occluded front is depicted. During the process of occlusion cold air wraps around the whole storm, sometimes when you are about to flip to rain , occlusion saves you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Repost for the ULL question, great modules here guys, explains a lot with some great archived storms http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Steve, you missed your calling. Thanks for all of these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginx snewx Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Steve, you missed your calling. Thanks for all of these Thanks, I love sharing knowledge, my minor was Env Ed but I had to support three kids so went in another direction but work at an Educational Institution so it works out. This is fun anyway, kids are spoiled though, anything they want can be googled,we actually used a library , my question is why aren't the majority of kids smarter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisStraight Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks Ginx, I remember the old weather reports in the paper back when I was a kid used to show occluded fronts, didnt know the importance of why you guys mentioned it til now, thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks, I love sharing knowledge, my minor was Env Ed but I had to support three kids so went in another direction but work at an Educational Institution so it works out. This is fun anyway, kids are spoiled though, anything they want can be googled,we actually used a library , my question is why aren't the majority of kids smarter? Google can't put information into a new light or tailor it's presentation of knowledge to suit the individual like you, Will, Scooter and others can. Analog is making great posts here too, despite WOTY status Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Thanks Ginx, I remember the old weather reports in the paper back when I was a kid used to show occluded fronts, didnt know the importance of why you guys mentioned it til now, thanks again. I think Don Kent was big into mentioning them as well IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherwiz Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I need to know where to get CORRECT EPO data actually, since as I found out from Will the source I was using was not correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnmov Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Ok, I waded through all of the info... this is excellent stuff, especially for a novice like me who is interested in this stuff but by no means an expert. I do a pretty good job of keeping up on all the acronymns, but, sorry, for the life of me, I can't figure out this... What the heck does "KU" stand for? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoarfrostHubb Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Ok, I waded through all of the info... this is excellent stuff, especially for a novice like me who is interested in this stuff but by no means an expert. I do a pretty good job of keeping up on all the acronymns, but, sorry, for the life of me, I can't figure out this... What the heck does "KU" stand for? Thanks! Kocin Uccellini - they wrote the bibles of northeast snowstorms and rate big events Paul Kocin and Louis Uccellini At the GTGs some bring the books and we drool over them A KU event is what we live for... sometimes Tolland, CT gets14" of snow out of these Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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