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The return of winter pattern disco


Damage In Tolland

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I'll take you and Scott's word for it, but it a looks like a disjointed, amorphous bag of WTF, to me.

'78 had a PV (or SPV to cure Tip and Brian's fetish for not calling it an official pv) diving down into the OH Valley and getting stretched a bit before consolidating again all south of SNE and producing of course one of the biggest monsters ever here. Its silly to expect that again or even try to expect it, but when you see the 90h Euro 5h panel, you start to think. This particular solution just kept getting stretched out which is bizarre but who knows.

Trust us, this wasn't far from a ridiculous solution. Obviously ridiculous solutions need everything to go right which is why you should never expect them...but to at least see the chance on the table is a nice thing.

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Yeah that was almost looking like a '78 HECS or something at 90h...but it got stretched out obscenely, lol. I love the idea of putting all the action at 5h south of us...that usually can only mean good things.

I didn't see that rubber band style stretch coming. I think its safe to say it probably wouldn't play out like that.

I didn't either...yet another type of solution..lol.

I'd like to see a concentrated VM dive se and not go so far offshore. The euro eventually did this, so I took that as a positive. I was rather pleased by the outcome at this stage of the game.

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I didn't either...yet another type of solution..lol.

I'd like to see a concentrated VM dive se and not go so far offshore. The euro eventually did this, so I took that as a positive. I was rather pleased by the outcome at this stage of the game.

Yeah I think its very hard not to be excited by this type of solution at 108 hours form the Euro unless you have the qpf fetish at this stage...for this lead time, we have some excellent possibilities.

No guarantee any of this works out of course and people should realize a 1-3" event is just as likely (if not more) then a major event...but its good to see this NOT trending worse.

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At 90 hrs, the vortex is elongating like wants to join the frey....

'78 had a PV (or SPV to cure Tip and Brian's fetish for not calling it an official pv) diving down into the OH Valley and getting stretched a bit before consolidating again all south of SNE and producing of course one of the biggest monsters ever here. Its silly to expect that again or even try to expect it, but when you see the 90h Euro 5h panel, you start to think. This particular solution just kept getting stretched out which is bizarre but who knows.

Trust us, this wasn't far from a ridiculous solution. Obviously ridiculous solutions need everything to go right which is why you should never expect them...but to at least see the chance on the table is a nice thing.

Yea, I thought it was poised for a clean phase, too.....but everything went to sh** shortly thereafter......I think by hr 96-102 I knew this run wouldn't do it.

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don't attach me with SPV...I hate that term...lol.

I normally just call it "a vortex" but sometimes get caught up in calling it a pv since its easier to type less words. I've developed more of a "met syndrome" with writing over the past 3 years in using more abbreviations if possible.

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Ray check out the Kocin book on '78.

It actually helps to have the PV stretch a bit and have a more concentrated vortmax lead the way. When this happens, it allows for good PVA downstream of the vortmax, and eventual cyclogenesis. Obviously you don't want it all mucked up by several other vortmaxes or having the main vortmax kick too far ots.

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Ray check out the Kocin book on '78.

It actually helps to have the PV stretch a bit and have a more concentrated vortmax lead the way. When this happens, it allows for good PVA downstream of the vortmax, and eventual cyclogenesis. Obviously you don't want it all mucked up by several other vortmaxes or having the main vortmax kick too far ots.

What went wrong here....I was thinking it just escaped a bit too far out....

The '78 vortex dove down to the Delmarva....much further s.

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What went wrong here....I was thinking it just escaped a bit too far out....

The '78 vortex dove down to the Delmarva....much further s.

Well this drove even further southeast, if you check out H5. It may have kicked out a little too far se, but for some 96+ hrs out, I can't complain and it is a huge improvement from 12z.

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The HPC forecast discussion 12Z release hits upon every aspect of what's being bounced around tonight. The 1am. thoughts are direct.

http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/pmdepd.html

With such a block in place one would think that a larger hit over a 1-3" looks more probable. After that looking like a five day repeating pattern.

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Nice maps Brian...you can see how close that it is to a ridiculous solution.

Details are obviously different and that makes a big difference....but we are talking 4 days out.

Not going to lie, I was kinda surprised the Euro went back towards this type of solution. It's actually really close to tugging the entire thing northwest again..similarly to last night, but to a less dramatic southward extent.

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And the steroid block over North Central Canada. Aside from the PV positioning it's basically a completely different upper air pattern in Canada.

Imagine the steroid block in Canada in 2011 being linked up the ridge (not very far from that)...that essentially takes the place of the 1978 ridge...you can see the 1978 ridge is almost pinched off acting as a block in its own right.

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I'm always pretty nervous when the models show much of the snowfall coming from an inverted trough set-up. Remember the NAM ridiculous inverted trough from a few weeks ago. LOL In the end it was a few inches of snow in parts of SNE and a half inch back to here.

I'd like to know why the EURO doesn't depict the robust inverted trough that the GFS and GEM do.

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