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December 2022 Medium/Long Range Pattern Discussion Thread


Carvers Gap
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Euro had an interesting take on the big system next week:

giphy.gif?cid=790b7611d1a33de02492e1003b

Might could be not bad for upslope? 

The rest of that pattern doesn't look too bad either. 

I think this storm window is the same one the GFS called like 10 days ago, but had it as a storm moving WSW into Norfolk:

giphy.gif

 

Speaking of the GFS, it looks pretty similar to the Euro in the window:

gfs_z500a_namer_37.png

I know I just posted that time frame at 500 mb yesterday afternoon, but I fully expected it to be 100% different on the GFS this morning with how that model has been swinging lately. At least this is a dollop of consistency. 

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11 minutes ago, John1122 said:

The OP GFS wasn't great as it tries to dump the cold into Mexico and it struggles to move East. Other models, including the GEFS not so much and the cold progresses East just fine.  I've seen some mets talking about the GFS having major long range warm bias issues with the new version.

Yeah ive been reading a lot in the New England forum and several mets are saying that the new GFS is doing a horrendous job with the blocking and just basically the whole flow of things. I can tell it's taken a hit because there is absolutely no run to run continuity with the models since the upgrade.  Why upgrade a model with poorer performance....

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41 minutes ago, Holston_River_Rambler said:

Maybe they put something in its algorithm from way back in the FV3 days when it used to produce those wild snow storms late in its run. 

 

34 minutes ago, Met1985 said:

Yeah ive been reading a lot in the New England forum and several mets are saying that the new GFS is doing a horrendous job with the blocking and just basically the whole flow of things. I can tell it's taken a hit because there is absolutely no run to run continuity with the models since the upgrade.  Why upgrade a model with poorer performance....

 

I've noticed it, even before the upgrade, struggling with long range temperature extremes. I remember it went on a streak of advertising desert southwest temps for the middle part of the country in September. The heatwave happened but the GFS was 5-10 degrees too warm with it when it saw it in the longer ranges. Winter is much more volatile and even harder to predict from day to day, because temperatures can vary much more greatly in winter vs summer. 

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4 minutes ago, John1122 said:

 

 

I've noticed it, even before the upgrade, struggling with long range temperature extremes. I remember it went on a streak of advertising desert southwest temps for the middle part of the country in September. The heatwave happened but the GFS was 5-10 degrees too warm with it when it saw it in the longer ranges. Winter is much more volatile and even harder to predict from day to day, because temperatures can vary much more greatly in winter vs summer. 

Yeah you are right. I remember this summer is was record breaking high temps for areas like OK and surrounding regions. Then the heat wave come and left and no records or super records were broken... 

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12 minutes ago, Met1985 said:

Yeah you are right. I remember this summer is was record breaking high temps for areas like OK and surrounding regions. Then the heat wave come and left and no records or super records were broken... 

I believe it had Memphis at 107-109 for several days on end. It verified about 6-10 degrees cooler.

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3 hours ago, John1122 said:

The OP GFS wasn't great as it tries to dump the cold into Mexico and it struggles to move East. Other models, including the GEFS not so much and the cold progresses East just fine.  I've seen some mets talking about the GFS having major long range warm bias issues with the new version.

Yeah, it's absolutely fouled up. It was bad enough before but, this takes the cake, lol. Looks like it's been hijacked by the Climate agenda money milking bunch. 

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Just a bit of a run to run difference on the GFS. There's a 45 degree difference in our area from 18z to 00z. I don't know which, if either will be correct but right now it's just not a usable model for anything beyond 5 days. The GEFS doesn't agree with the op, at all. 

The Canadian is unchanged. The cold arrives and we have snow showers around the 15th/16th. 

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3 hours ago, John1122 said:

Just a bit of a run to run difference on the GFS. There's a 45 degree difference in our area from 18z to 00z. I don't know which, if either will be correct but right now it's just not a usable model for anything beyond 5 days. The GEFS doesn't agree with the op, at all. 

The Canadian is unchanged. The cold arrives and we have snow showers around the 15th/16th. 

My exact sentiments on the gfs. The OP is extremely volatile passed day 5 from run to run...

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The 0z Euro control is insanely cold over the Plains and Front Range.  That is a fantastic set-up for those who live in western areas of the forum.  The EPS supports that look(core of the cold in the western Plains) w/ the furtherest extent of the cold reaching the Atlantic.  Remember the strat split a while back?  Yep, that is where it normally dumps cold first in NA(if it goes to NA), and right on time 2-3 weeks after the event.  Would be interesting if the background driver was a combination of SSW and Pac forcing(not the good kind).    Anyway, the set-up depicted is very similar to the over-running event for Memphis a few years back.

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I relearn this lesson every winter.  Models often go haywire right before and just as cold air shows up in the medium and long range in modeling.  Guessing this is a Montana special(cold) that bleeds in an ever modified form...eastward.  Winter chances increase as one goes westward(from the Apps) in this set-up.   

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9 hours ago, John1122 said:

Just a bit of a run to run difference on the GFS. There's a 45 degree difference in our area from 18z to 00z. I don't know which, if either will be correct but right now it's just not a usable model for anything beyond 5 days. The GEFS doesn't agree with the op, at all. 

The Canadian is unchanged. The cold arrives and we have snow showers around the 15th/16th. 

We'll call it the Woke Hack. 

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3 hours ago, Carvers Gap said:

I relearn this lesson every winter.  Models often go haywire right before and just as cold air shows up in the medium and long range in modeling.  Guessing this is a Montana special(cold) that bleeds in an ever modified form...eastward.  Winter chances increase as one goes westward(from the Apps) in this set-up.   

Yeah, sure looking more and more like a Plains/ Rockies Winter. It may translate East to encompass areas similar to last Winter and year before. 

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5 hours ago, Daniel Boone said:

Yeah, sure looking more and more like a Plains/ Rockies Winter. It may translate East to encompass areas similar to last Winter and year before. 

Nina winters are huge for the northern Rockies in terms of snowfall.  Water content in the snow can lack at times as it did last winter - lots of cold, fluffy snow and water content was low.

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If I lived in northwest TN right now...I would be chomping at the bit.  The pattern is loaded for bear from a line from Memphis to Nashville and northwest.  I hope NE TN can get in on the action (not holding my breath).  A classic Nina cold weather outbreak is set for the western half of the state IMHO.  I am really interested to see if that line can press further SE.

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2 hours ago, Carvers Gap said:

If I lived in northwest TN right now...I would be chomping at the bit.  The pattern is loaded for bear from a line from Memphis to Nashville and northwest.  I hope NE TN can get in on the action (not holding my breath).  A classic Nina cold weather outbreak is set for the western half of the state IMHO.  I am really interested to see if that line can press further SE.

Yeah, hopefully the deep cold will come far enough east to get us on the cold side of the boundary. 

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