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Coronavirus

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2 hours ago, WaryWarren said:

Jesus, 954 deaths in Poland today. That's the equivalent of 8,400 deaths in the US.

 

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Yesterday it was 640, but the day before that it was only 60 so it might be updating the numbers a bit. It looks like there are huge variations there if you look at the graph so it is probably related to inconsistent day to day reporting.

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On the flip side there appears to be a population of all aged student personalities  excelling with virtual learning. I have to believe I would have benefited from online learning  for many reasons when I was in school during the 80's/early 90's.  The social part of school can be very damaging.  It just goes to show that education needs to expand its instructional methods so that all students can benefit from the learning style that best suits them.

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6 minutes ago, UMB WX said:

On the flip side there appears to be a population of all aged student personalities  excelling with virtual learning. I have to believe I would have benefited from online learning  for many reasons when I was in school during the 80's/early 90's.  The social part of school can be very damaging.  It just goes to show that education needs to expand its instructional methods so that all students can benefit from the learning style that best suits them.

Agreed. Even if this population probably skews white/upper middle class, if that’s how a student learns best, that option should be available through the public school system and kids shouldn’t be forced to go to a charter school or something for it.

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15 minutes ago, UMB WX said:

On the flip side there appears to be a population of all aged student personalities  excelling with virtual learning. I have to believe I would have benefited from online learning  for many reasons when I was in school during the 80's/early 90's.  The social part of school can be very damaging.  It just goes to show that education needs to expand its instructional methods so that all students can benefit from the learning style that best suits them.

As someone who is young enough to have taken online classes-it's because online classes and virtual learning is easier, and easier to cheat (you can google answers, even for math problems). 

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20 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

As someone who is young enough to have taken online classes-it's because online classes and virtual learning is easier, and easier to cheat (you can google answers, even for math problems). 

But haven’t students been cheating since the dawn of time?

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10 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

But haven’t students been cheating since the dawn of time?

Listen I am not arguing that there aren't kids who benefit from online classes, but its a whole lot easier to get a higher grade while putting in less work from remote learning and that's a fact. I even agree with you that standardized testing is malarkey (and that's coming from an above average standardized test taker), but there still has to be some kind of merit based system where not everyone gets an A because everyone knows how to use google. 

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20 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Listen I am not arguing that there aren't kids who benefit from online classes, but its a whole lot easier to get a higher grade while putting in less work from remote learning and that's a fact. I even agree with you that standardized testing is malarkey (and that's coming from an above average standardized test taker), but there still has to be some kind of merit based system where not everyone gets an A because everyone knows how to use google. 

Grade inflation has been going on since the Vietnam days when professors didn’t want to flunk students because they wanted to make sure they stayed in school so they didn’t get sent to Vietnam. (And probably before that)

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24 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

Listen I am not arguing that there aren't kids who benefit from online classes, but its a whole lot easier to get a higher grade while putting in less work from remote learning and that's a fact. I even agree with you that standardized testing is malarkey (and that's coming from an above average standardized test taker), but there still has to be some kind of merit based system where not everyone gets an A because everyone knows how to use google. 

I've done both and I 100% agree. It's hard to argue this point actually, google is one click away and no teacher watching you take your test. 

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15 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

Grade inflation has been going on since the Vietnam days when professors didn’t want to flunk students because they wanted to make sure they stayed in school so they didn’t get sent to Vietnam. (And probably before that)

Well as of 8 months ago it took me about a quarter of the workload and time to get an A online as it did attending in person.

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16 minutes ago, BuffaloWeather said:

I've done both and I 100% agree. It's hard to argue this point actually, google is one click away and no teacher watching you take your test. 

So every single person on this earth would throw integrity to the wayside in that situation?

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Imo easily the biggest issue with remote learning is that it prevents children from learning crucial social skills like they would in-class. Sure, the course material is important too, but I'd argue that learning to interact with other people in a group setting is easily the "real" bread and butter of public schools.

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1 minute ago, TimB84 said:

So every single person on this earth would throw integrity to the wayside in that situation?

Of course. Most people take the easy way out if given the opportunity. That's especially true in college, where you're paying to get a degree. Can you imagine not cheating and failing and still paying $40k for not getting your Bachelors degree. 

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One could also argue that remote learning has removed a lot of the stress of constantly having to get good grades, which has been beneficial to the mental health of many. 

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Just now, BuffaloWeather said:

Of course. Most people take the easy way out if given the opportunity. That's especially true in college, where you're paying to get a degree. Can you imagine not cheating and failing and still paying $40k for a Bachelors degree. 

I would argue that if someone cheats to get a bachelor’s degree, it will ultimately either catch up to them when they fail professionally where cheating isn’t an option, and they’ll get what they deserved, or it won’t catch up to them and they’ll be successful in the adult world so their cheating in college would become irrelevant. But ultimately we’re talking about high school, where people have cheated since the beginning of time and there’s never been much if any student integrity, so little would change.

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6 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

So every single person on this earth would throw integrity to the wayside in that situation?

If you're relying on integrity to get a 15-18 year old to do school work vs literally almost anything else in the world.... you're in trouble. 

 

6 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

Imo easily the biggest issue with remote learning is that it prevents children from learning crucial social skills like they would in-class. Sure, the course material is important too, but I'd argue that learning to interact with other people in a group setting is easily the "real" bread and butter of public schools.

Hey look we agree on something!! :D

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2 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

If you're relying on integrity to get a 15-18 year old to do school work vs literally almost anything else in the world.... you're in trouble. 

I would argue that “people are going to cheat in school when learning remotely” is below at least 1,000 other issues to be worried about during the pandemic, maybe even 10,000.

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7 minutes ago, Malacka11 said:

One could also argue that remote learning has removed a lot of the stress of constantly having to get good grades, which has been beneficial to the mental health of many. 

Social aspect agreed.  Mental health seems to be an issue stemming from the lack of social interactions. 

http://dailyorange.com/2021/04/remote-learning-mental-health-local-students/

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I think in-person school should be available if at all possible.  I feel like some areas have been dragging their feet too much with reopening for in-person learning.  Perhaps you cut out the sports/extracurricular activities for now.

CDC came out and said they believe the B.1.1.7 UK variant is now the dominant one in the US.  It appears to be more contagious in general, so kids may also be able to spread that one more.  Thankfully we are coming closer to the end of the school year, but we're still talking about a couple more months in many cases.

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Just now, Hoosier said:

I think in-person school should be available if at all possible.  I feel like some areas have been dragging their feet too much with reopening for in-person learning.  Perhaps you cut out the sports/extracurricular activities for now.

CDC came out and said they believe the B.1.1.7 UK variant is now the dominant one in the US.  It appears to be more contagious in general, so kids may also be able to spread that one more.  Thankfully we are coming closer to the end of the school year, but we're still talking about a couple more months in many cases.

I would argue, and I think many educators would agree, that nothing substantial occurs between mid-April and the end of the school year.

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3 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

I would argue that “people are going to cheat in school when learning remotely” is below at least 1,000 other issues to be worried about during the pandemic, maybe even 10,000.

You're missing the point. Cheating=not learning. I think "kids education is suffering from at home learning" is pretty high on that list. 

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Just now, schoeppeya said:

You're missing the point. Cheating=not learning. I think "kids education is suffering from at home learning" is pretty high on that list. 

Failing also = not learning, and that’s what those kids would be doing if they didn’t have the opportunity to cheat (which they would, even in a school setting).

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1 minute ago, TimB84 said:

Failing also = not learning, and that’s what those kids would be doing if they didn’t have the opportunity to cheat (which they would, even in a school setting).

I think you have a serious disconnect between what you think goes on at school and at home vs what really happens at school and at home. And we are probably at the point where we will just have to agree to disagree on this. 

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I think in high school it's whatever; kids are still developing, sure, but at least they're nearing maturity. But I think we really need to do whatever it takes to get our elementary schools back in full gear for at least two big reasons:

1. Those are the years where it is extremely important to develop healthy social habits and begin to build your ego, from a psychological sense

2. By getting young kids back in school, their parents are able to work or do whatever else it is they need. 

In general, elementary school is definitely where the biggest impact could be made. Not quite up-to-date with how much little kids can spread the disease or its variants, but we should -as a society- do whatever we can to get those kids back together. 

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1 minute ago, schoeppeya said:

I think you have a serious disconnect between what you think goes on at school and at home vs what really happens at school and at home. And we are probably at the point where we will just have to agree to disagree on this. 

I know what goes on at school and at home, kids find new and creative ways to cheat on a daily basis. It’s not going to change, regardless of setting.

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1 minute ago, TimB84 said:

I know what goes on at school and at home, kids find new and creative ways to cheat on a daily basis. It’s not going to change, regardless of setting.

If you are going at least not acknowledge that it is significantly harder to cheat in person than online or remote classes then you’re not having this conversation in good faith. 
 

ADDITIONALLY, online learning is SIGNIFICANTLY less difficult in my experience, both in the work itself and how that work is graded. 

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22 minutes ago, TimB84 said:

I would argue that if someone cheats to get a bachelor’s degree, it will ultimately either catch up to them when they fail professionally where cheating isn’t an option, and they’ll get what they deserved, or it won’t catch up to them and they’ll be successful in the adult world so their cheating in college would become irrelevant. But ultimately we’re talking about high school, where people have cheated since the beginning of time and there’s never been much if any student integrity, so little would change.

Fair point. I don't disagree in that people shouldn't cheat, but when push comes to shove I believe most just want to get that slip of paper and move on.

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Remote learning takes the few things that students find fun about school, shits on them, and then keeps the "grinding" part. The assignments are more hollow, students are completely unmotivated to do them. Of course, I don't know exactly what it's like, but I imagine that it's basically impossible to actually get kids engaged if they don't want to be. Hell, I know if I had an 8:30 Zoom class I'd be attending that thing in my PJs every day. 

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4 minutes ago, schoeppeya said:

If you are going at least not acknowledge that it is significantly harder to cheat in person than online or remote classes then you’re not having this conversation in good faith. 
 

ADDITIONALLY, online learning is SIGNIFICANTLY less difficult in my experience, both in the work itself and how that work is graded. 

Of course it’s significantly harder to cheat in person than it is online. I’m just also of the belief that the kids who don’t want to learn won’t do it in any setting.

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