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41 minutes ago, RogueWaves said:

Dittos. The increased positives via increased testing is a no-brainer. IF death rates start spiking around here I'll be more concerned but that number (which never seems the first focus of our main media outlets) continues flat-lining. All the hoopla over that MSU campus bar that opened and was flooded with student-aged patrons that couldn't wait to get back to their drinking hangout resulted in 100+ positives. But the last article I saw nobody was ill, let alone hospitalized. And they tested all known contacts even outside the establishment per the news article.

I say Mask Up Open Up!

What is still closed in Michigan?

Here's where we are in IN.  Click the image if the print is blurry.  We have been in what's called stage 4.5 for a while and my guess is it will probably be extended past August 27.  Basically everything is open (or at least allowed to be open) with certain things at 50 or 75 percent limits.  

Screenshot_20200809-160622.thumb.png.4f1bf4a1b4b3fb8efb1d4f1e69c8912e.png

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Sweden stopped herd immunity mid-April. Started mandating masks at high infection areas, restricted large gatherings(still in effect). Was helped with the other European countries shutting down access to the virus. Sweden is the size of Ohio, but still beats Ohio in total deaths and infections, which due to Covid being a Vascular disease, means more long term damaged people.

Its your type of attitude, that leads to the US being a slow mo trainwreck.

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Sweden is widely seen in non brain work circles as a massive failure with significant excess death. But whatever, we've been in bizzaro world for years.

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Basically if you wanted Herd immunity with only self-social distancing, we would look at 600,000 deaths and 20 million people with long term damage. Now we are looking at 300,000 dead with 10 million with long term damage. I can't wait for health care companies to jack of costs over this future "treatment". That is where Influenza is not as annoying. It comes, it kills fast, its gone in 6-9 months. Yeah, 2020 is not 1918 in terms of deaths, but its worse than 1957(if containment policy was similar) and the long term effects which the Flu doesn't have.

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6 minutes ago, A-L-E-K said:

Sweden is widely seen in non brain work circles as a massive failure with significant excess death. But whatever, we've been in bizzaro world for years.

They apparently didn't admit many of the 70-80+ year old patients into ICU care...just gave them pain meds and let them die. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-taking-a-high-toll-on-swedens-elderly-families-blame-the-government-11592479430

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56 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

What is still closed in Michigan?

Here's where we are in IN.  Click the image if the print is blurry.  We have been in what's called stage 4.5 for a while and my guess is it will probably be extended past August 27.  Basically everything is open (or at least allowed to be open) with certain things at 50 or 75 percent limits.  

Screenshot_20200809-160622.thumb.png.4f1bf4a1b4b3fb8efb1d4f1e69c8912e.png

On the MI closed list iiuc, would be bars that mainly serve just alcohol w/o a true kitchen. Cinemas and gyms. Large auditorium events. Schools. And businesses that have taken a financial torpedo to the bow and won't be seen floating again when this is over. That's all I've got. Some other Michigander here feel free to clarify..

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2 hours ago, Jonger said:

Sweden does nothing and their situation resolves itself on its own, but ours won't eh?

I'm skeptical.

Their population density is about 25% of ours and they don't have a city even close to the density of all the major cities here. Not to mention their medical system and insurance is much better than here.

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49 minutes ago, OSUmetstud said:

They apparently didn't admit many of the 70-80+ year old patients into ICU care...just gave them pain meds and let them die. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-is-taking-a-high-toll-on-swedens-elderly-families-blame-the-government-11592479430

Yeah just what some in this country want, the old to die and go away.

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4 minutes ago, RogueWaves said:

On the MI closed list iiuc, would be bars that mainly serve just alcohol w/o a true kitchen. Cinemas and gyms. Large auditorium events. Schools. And businesses that have taken a financial torpedo to the bow and won't be seen floating again when this is over. That's all I've got. Some other Michigander here feel free to clarify..

Yeah all places that are known high spreaders...

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Anyone able to look up firm 2020 total death numbers (all causes) for the US? I'm not super-search savvy but my attempts via Google and Bing have ended in frustration. Tons of hits about C-19 this and C-19 that but still can't pin down a chart/graph/list of the total count (to date).

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49 minutes ago, RogueWaves said:

Anyone able to look up firm 2020 total death numbers (all causes) for the US? I'm not super-search savvy but my attempts via Google and Bing have ended in frustration. Tons of hits about C-19 this and C-19 that but still can't pin down a chart/graph/list of the total count (to date).

200700 excess deaths per NYT/CDC through July 25th

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/05/05/us/coronavirus-death-toll-us.html

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

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1 hour ago, RogueWaves said:

On the MI closed list iiuc, would be bars that mainly serve just alcohol w/o a true kitchen. Cinemas and gyms. Large auditorium events. Schools. And businesses that have taken a financial torpedo to the bow and won't be seen floating again when this is over. That's all I've got. Some other Michigander here feel free to clarify..

Ok.  I don't know what the hospital situation is like in Michigan, but if the numbers are good then maybe one could argue for limited opening of some of those places.  

Hopefully some good can come from all of this and people use it as an opportunity to try to get their health in check as much as possible.  I supppement with vit D (especially in fall/winter when you can't really get adequate sun exposure), magnesium, and zinc for general health and to maintain healthy T levels.  Been doing that long before covid came along but if it would help against that in some direct or indirect way, great.  We have a ton of obese/morbidly obese people walking around in this country, which obviously doesn't help if you contract this virus.  I check off a couple of the risk factor boxes myself... and they are not necessarily readily apparent when you look at me.  I have been operating under the assumption that whatever I had in March was not this virus and am continuing to avoid higher risk situations to the best of my ability.  Still have not physically been inside of a restaurant since February.  I agree with the thinking that a majority of us will catch it (with many not realizing they had it) but my philosophy has been to try to delay it as much as possible.  You never know if catching it down the road could alter the course of your illness (particularly for someone with one of the more severe cases if better treatment comes out) or possibly even save your life.

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17 hours ago, Stebo said:

Their population density is about 25% of ours and they don't have a city even close to the density of all the major cities here. Not to mention their medical system and insurance is much better than here.

Nice illustration of why comparing our situation to that of New Zealand and successful European countries like some are doing is ill-advised as well.

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On 8/9/2020 at 5:17 PM, A-L-E-K said:

Sweden is widely seen in non brain work circles as a massive failure with significant excess death. But whatever, we've been in bizzaro world for years.

Right....

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On 8/9/2020 at 6:13 PM, RogueWaves said:

On the MI closed list iiuc, would be bars that mainly serve just alcohol w/o a true kitchen. Cinemas and gyms. Large auditorium events. Schools. And businesses that have taken a financial torpedo to the bow and won't be seen floating again when this is over. That's all I've got. Some other Michigander here feel free to clarify..

The juice was never worth the squeeze.

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Not much attention is paid to long-term morbidities that will spring from the virus (and in some cases, already are) that could run into the millions or tens of millions. Only focusing on the death count is a myopic view of the situation, imo.

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2 minutes ago, csnavywx said:

Not much attention is paid to long-term morbidities that will spring from the virus (and in some cases, already are) that could run into the millions or tens of millions. Only focusing on the death count is a myopic view of the situation, imo.

Agreed, long term ailments should be another major point in dealing with this virus, it seems to be a wide range of issues. These 1000 plus death a days get very discouraging too, seems endless.

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58 minutes ago, Wmsptwx said:

Another day, another 50 something thousand cases another 1400 deaths.

At this point can pretty much only count on the slower reporting days of Sun/Mon to come in less than 1k

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The weird thing about the longer term symptoms is that it spans across severities of the initial illness.  Just because you had mild symptoms initially doesn't mean that you won't have long term symptoms.  Have even seen some stories of people who thought they recovered and then the symptoms resurfaced.  

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Researchers are saying now that having received many vaccinations for other things (flu, pneumonia, hepatitis, etc, etc) could very well be providing people with extra immunity against Covid as a result of immune system training from the vaccines.

It seems we focus so much on the negative news with Covid that we often ignore any positive news. Lots of reasons to be optimistic that the battle against Covid will be won. Several promising vaccines in the works, artificial antibodies being developed, T-cell cross reactivity, a stronger immune system from other vaccines, etc... we have lots of reasons to be optimistic right now. Maybe we can try to focus just a little bit on these and not so much on the negatives? :weenie:

 

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3 hours ago, csnavywx said:

Not much attention is paid to long-term morbidities that will spring from the virus (and in some cases, already are) that could run into the millions or tens of millions. Only focusing on the death count is a myopic view of the situation, imo.

If the cardiovascular issues showing up are long-term we are setting up a generation of heart attack and stroke victims.

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47 minutes ago, ovweather said:

Researchers are saying now that having received many vaccinations for other things (flu, pneumonia, hepatitis, etc, etc) could very well be providing people with extra immunity against Covid as a result of immune system training from the vaccines.

It seems we focus so much on the negative news with Covid that we often ignore any positive news. Lots of reasons to be optimistic that the battle against Covid will be won. Several promising vaccines in the works, artificial antibodies being developed, T-cell cross reactivity, a stronger immune system from other vaccines, etc... we have lots of reasons to be optimistic right now. Maybe we can try to focus just a little bit on these and not so much on the negatives? :weenie:

 

Covid isn't going to render humanity extinct, so from that perspective I don't think anyone doubts that we'll "win"....it's just the amount of unnecessary carnage we'll experience to get there.  History will judge our response to be a failure.  But if we somehow do get an effective vaccine by the end of the year that will certainly be technological marvel.

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Unfortunately now know two people struggling with covid... one 55 one 7. The 7 year old from my town had severe fever and fatigue and ended up in local geisinger icu with severe lung failure and other issues, luckily he appears to be improving, but still in icu as of now. The 55 year old who is a friend of my dads is not doing well, recently hospitalized and hoping to not need intubated, was short of breath and extremely high fever before going to hospital. This is just now starting to hit hard in my rural part of pa and starting to personally know many people who have it.

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My cousin's ex husband had it.  His main symptom was extreme fatigue that came on quickly... was bad enough that he was afraid he was going to crash his car.  His wife also tested positive but no symptoms.

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When can we look for deaths to get below 1000 again on a consistent basis? I know most in New England thread expected it to rise to the high hundreds but instead we’re stuck at 1200 to 1500 every non weekend day. I just never thought in a million years we’d be at 1200 plus a day with half of August gone.

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1 hour ago, Wmsptwx said:

When can we look for deaths to get below 1000 again on a consistent basis? I know most in New England thread expected it to rise to the high hundreds but instead we’re stuck at 1200 to 1500 every non weekend day. I just never thought in a million years we’d be at 1200 plus a day with half of August gone.

There was a lot of hoping and wishing against actuality and reality in that thread. At least this thread has remained pretty based. I honestly don't know the answer because we are doing little to prevent the rise especially in the south and school is potentially going to start in more areas soon beyond the south.

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