Coronavirus

[IWXwx]

8 hours ago, Hoosier said:

Anybody who is asymptomatic can get tested?  Like say you're a 20 year old college kid with no symptoms but you're just curious... even that person?   

Yes, although it is only at the Optum testing sites and it is free even though they are a private company. There are 83 Optum sites throughout the state. However, the other 116 hospital-run sites still have stipulations such as health-care worker, symptomatic, etc.

From the ISDH website, "Anyone who lives or works in Indiana can be tested at an Optum site."

[Hoosier]

For the love of God, don't attend a family gathering if you have one of the symptoms of the virus, even if you think it's something else.

https://www.wfaa.com/mobile/article/news/north-texas-family-shaken-after-18-relatives-test-positive-for-covid-19-following-surprise-birthday-party/287-ea8960ea-4c3c-40c1-b75e-f4437fe6f836

[Hoosier]

On 6/22/2020 at 7:42 PM, IWXwx said:

Yes, although it is only at the Optum testing sites and it is free even though they are a private company. There are 83 Optum sites throughout the state. However, the other 116 hospital-run sites still have stipulations such as health-care worker, symptomatic, etc.

From the ISDH website, "Anyone who lives or works in Indiana can be tested at an Optum site."

Elkhart county has been having a decent amount of spread lately.

[bowtie`]

6 hours ago, Angrysummons said:

Disturbed by the long term damage young people are getting from this. This is where SARS is worse than the Flu in terms of its method.

And just what is the long term damage you speak of?  Here in the US we have been dealing with it since around January. Six months is only short term in my book.

[Hoosier]

37 minutes ago, bowtie` said:

And just what is the long term damage you speak of?  Here in the US we have been dealing with it since around January. Six months is only short term in my book.

Yeah, not enough is known at this point about how long those after effects can last.  But it sounds like it's not pleasant if you are one of the people dealing with it for weeks/months.  

[frostfern]

The downward trend in Michigan is over :(.  

[King James]

2 minutes ago, frostfern said:

The downward trend in Michigan is over :(.  

Second wave was always going to happen.  Whether we assign it to natural causes or other things,  it may be prudent for people to start considering the bigger picture regarding where this is going.  Gardens, hens, protein, self defense, sources of heat, water supply, cash etc are all smart things to think about having on hand.

 

Only one option allows us to be wrong and that IMO is preparing for a collapse of society.  If I am wrong, cool.

 

Anyway looking forward to these storms tonight!

[frostfern]

1 hour ago, King James said:

Second wave was always going to happen.  Whether we assign it to natural causes or other things,  it may be prudent for people to start considering the bigger picture regarding where this is going.  Gardens, hens, protein, self defense, sources of heat, water supply, cash etc are all smart things to think about having on hand.

 

Only one option allows us to be wrong and that IMO is preparing for a collapse of society.  If I am wrong, cool.

 

Anyway looking forward to these storms tonight!

If people were willing to fight a virus like they fight a war against an invading army things would be different.  Worship of individualism and capitalism is the undoing of the US.  Nice for the people who can afford to stock shit and hide in bunkers.  People who've been living paycheck to paycheck will come for your ass regardless.

[King James]

If people were willing to fight a virus like they fight a war against an invading arming things would be different.  Worship of individualism and capitalism is the undoing of the US.  Nice for the people who can afford to stock shit and hide in bunkers.  People who've been living paycheck to paycheck will come for your ass regardless.

I place blame on no one, we can only control ourselves

[frostfern]

On 6/22/2020 at 8:56 AM, hardypalmguy said:

Make sure to load up on vitamin D. This is key with COVID I think.


.

Could also load up on Lysol.  Take a long ass needle and inject it into the lungs as a preventive measure.

[frostfern]

2 minutes ago, King James said:

I place blame on no one, we can only control ourselves

You better believe lots of people will place blame and not have a lot of sympathy for the selfish.

[King James]

You better believe lots of people will place blame and not have a lot of sympathy for the selfish.

This thread shows as much. If my neighbor wears a mask or doesn’t...Washes his hands or doesn’t...There is no judgement here. We all choose our own paths and I will help my neighbor in need regardless of the path he takes

[Hoosier]

Some of these states need to rein it in a bit.  Almost 9,000 new cases in Florida. Sounds like the bars are going to be closing down there or only offering takeout/delivery when possible.  Hopefully the states that are spiking bad right now can stabilize/decrease as we head into July.

[Hoosier]

Texas closing bars too.

[frostfern]

The sad thing is some places in the world have managed to keep numbers low without hanging a threat of destitution on millions.  The barrier to management in the US is ideological.

[wisconsinwx]

1 hour ago, King James said:

This thread shows as much. If my neighbor wears a mask or doesn’t...Washes his hands or doesn’t...There is no judgement here. We all choose our own paths and I will help my neighbor in need regardless of the path he takes

There is not a lot of middle ground it seems, just like politics.  I'm wearing a mask for any outdoor gatherings, but if they end up small or everyone else is pretty relaxed and not wearing masks, I'll take it off.  If I go out to the bar I will definitely wear a mask and make sure to socially distance, but I've only been in that scenario once since mid March.

[RyanDe680]

The hope is that this doesn't spill over into other states....

[Hoosier]

1 hour ago, wisconsinwx said:

There is not a lot of middle ground it seems, just like politics.  I'm wearing a mask for any outdoor gatherings, but if they end up small or everyone else is pretty relaxed and not wearing masks, I'll take it off.  If I go out to the bar I will definitely wear a mask and make sure to socially distance, but I've only been in that scenario once since mid March.

 

[King James]

People have impulse control of a dog. That is why the shutdowns sucked in the end. It was just random shutdowns with no national plan in place to contain the virus. Through math, I see about half of the US could become effected and a 3rd seriously effected. They ain't all old people either. You'll be scarred for life and in the low percentage worst case, dead.

To be selfish is not patriotic.

That’s life, enjoy it in your own way brother

[King James]

There is not a lot of middle ground it seems, just like politics.  I'm wearing a mask for any outdoor gatherings, but if they end up small or everyone else is pretty relaxed and not wearing masks, I'll take it off.  If I go out to the bar I will definitely wear a mask and make sure to socially distance, but I've only been in that scenario once since mid March.

It’s an interesting dynamic for sure. The need for control is pretty fascinating to me.

[purduewx80]

1 hour ago, King James said:

It’s an interesting dynamic for sure. The need for control is pretty fascinating to me.

 

[King James]

 

An impossible ask, especially in the age of nonlinear warfare. A source can be found for every stance, and that’s intentional.

“Masks work” ... “Masks don’t work”

The game being played goes beyond a virus, which should be clear to all, regardless how one handles the virus

I’m totally fine with someone wearing a mask, I wouldn’t do it but I understand the choice others have made


Just got to pick your lane and live in it.

[Hoosier]

I'm not a Trump fan but there was a missed opportunity with the masks.  He should've marketed and sold Trump masks like maga hats.  Whatever it takes.  Wouldn't solve it entirely but it would help.  If you're not wearing a mask these days, chances are you are a follower of the president.

[King James]

I'm not a Trump fan but there was a missed opportunity with the masks.  He should've marketed and sold Trump masks like maga hats.  Whatever it takes.  Wouldn't solve it entirely but it would help.  If you're not wearing a mask these days, chances are you are a follower of the president.

Don’t paint with such a broad brush. Some think politics is a farce all together.

I care as much about who someone votes for as I do about the type of gum they chew. I personally abstain tho it should matter none.

 

People would think my reasons for not wearing a mask are as crazy as I think their reasons for wearing a mask

 

But that’s the thing, I don’t care why people wear a mask. And they shouldn’t care why I don’t. No judgement from me

 

We need each other for reasons that stretch far beyond the virus and politics

 

Let’s say the virus is very real AND the economy collapsing is very real. There is going to be a point in time soon when we won’t care about any of this, it’ll matter how compassionate and prepared you are.

 It’s good we disagree, it’s necessary

 Be good to your neighbors, even the ones breathing that fresh air

[Hoosier]

7 minutes ago, King James said:

Don’t paint with such a broad brush. Some think politics is a farce all together.

I care as much about who someone votes for as I do about the type of gum they chew. I personally abstain tho it should matter none.

 

People would think my reasons for not wearing a mask are as crazy as I think their reasons for wearing a mask

 

But that’s the thing, I don’t care why people wear a mask. And they shouldn’t care why I don’t. No judgement from me

 

We need each other for reasons that stretch far beyond the virus and politics

 

Let’s say the virus is very real AND the economy collapsing is very real. There is going to be a point in time soon when we won’t care about any of this, it’ll matter how compassionate and prepared you are.

 It’s good we disagree, it’s necessary

 Be good to your neighbors, even the ones breathing that fresh air

I guess I don't understand why the mask thing has become a big deal.  People act like it's some massive infringement.  Yes, it's inconvenient and uncomfortable especially when worn for a long time, but I look at it as a temporary measure to try to get us through this period of time.  I'll change my tune if the mask rules become a permanent thing, but for now, just going to deal with it.   

[King James]

I guess I don't understand why the mask thing has become a big deal.  People act like it's some massive infringement.  Yes, it's inconvenient and uncomfortable especially when worn for a long time, but I look at it as a temporary measure to try to get us through this period of time.  I'll change my tune if the mask rules become a permanent thing, but for now, just going to deal with it.   

I get that and it’s a fair point. But I think you touched on the disconnect. To some it is a massive infringement.

 

It takes all sorts to make the world go round and keep things in check

 

And again, I think all this talk is too late. No matter which lane you picked we are about to run out of road.

 

Tough times ahead

[Jonger]

I haven't worn one in weeks. Crunched the numbers and just feel like a dolt considering the fact that it's a big nothingburger where I live.

This thing kills 90 year old nursing home residents and not very many of them at that. 

I wore one a few times when in Detroit and close by. 

[Jonger]

Deaths haven't risen anywhere. Wake me up when that starts and it better not be 90 year old Gertrude. 

[Hoosier]

8 minutes ago, Jonger said:

Deaths haven't risen anywhere. Wake me up when that starts and it better not be 90 year old Gertrude. 

The current rate of deaths (~600 per day on avg) isn't exactly great.  It's only good compared to what it was.  At least it has been consistently trending down, but it will be difficult to keep that going down further as long as we are putting up 30-40k plus cases per day.

The new cases do seem to be skewing younger than before, but probably not to the extent that it seems.  You practically had to be on your death bed to get a test back in March if you were young, especially if you didn't have contact with a known infected person.    

[beavis1729]

3 hours ago, King James said:

I get that and it’s a fair point. But I think you touched on the disconnect. To some it is a massive infringement.

 

It takes all sorts to make the world go round and keep things in check

 

And again, I think all this talk is too late. No matter which lane you picked we are about to run out of road.

 

Tough times ahead

I appreciate this conversation, as you have hit on a topic that is crucial to the future of our country and the world. Specifically, “individual freedom” vs. “the collective good”.

In the bigger picture outside of the pandemic, I think it’s critical for people to get past the concept of “everyone is entitled to act certain ways, and that’s ok”. No, it’s not ok, in a lot of situations. And it’s unfortunate that those situations probably need to devalue personal freedom and choice...but if it’s for the greater good, I wish people were more accepting. Personal freedom can’t be used an excuse to stop good collective policies from being implemented.

Two examples come to mind immediately: the environment and health care. Personal freedom must be reduced in order to protect the environment. And that is how it should be and must be. No one should have the right to start a business that creates too much pollution, regardless of how much “demand” there is for a product. Even if people disagree, the actions and policies of the government must align with this, or we are all screwed. We should significantly increase regulations protecting the environment, and reduce or eliminate all other regulations. A good compromise. Why do humans think we can control and mess up the environment, at the expense of other living things (including our fellow humans)?

For health care, unfortunately some people are more unhealthy than others and therefore burden the system more than others. But, for the collective good, we should all chip in and pay the same for health care, if that approach leads to better outcomes for more people. I know there is an incentive to be healthier, in order to live a better life. But that should be a personal incentive, not an economic incentive.

It is unfortunate that, in this country, everything comes down to money. Humans should not be thought of as consumers. There has to be a better approach, where every individual is valued regardless of their wealth. Of course this approach would likely lead to lower aggregate wealth and prosperity vs. today...but it can’t be much worse than the toxic culture we have today, where everyone fights against each other to claim their share by exploiting others. It’s just wrong.

Masks vs. vaccines is even an interesting sub-debate. Personally, I think mandated vaccines crosses the line, as it violates individual freedom too much...because you are injecting a drug into your body. But masks are different, because they are not invasive.

Everything is a balance. Personal freedom should be one consideration, but not THE consideration.