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Mid to Long Term Discussion 2017


buckeyefan1

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I think things are looking pretty good for at least a period of cold in the beginning of February.  How long it lasts, who knows.  I'd like to get confirmation on the SOI crashing because that's usually the missing ingredient for the STJ cranking up and getting us southern storms.  If we can get a prolonged +PNA/-EPO with an active STJ we'll be in business.  Hopefully the canadian ridging will be enough to keep them south.  

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5 minutes ago, SnowNiner said:

I think things are looking pretty good for at least a period of cold in the beginning of February.  How long it lasts, who knows.  I'd like to get confirmation on the SOI crashing because that's usually the missing ingredient for the STJ cranking up and getting us southern storms.  If we can get a prolonged +PNA/-EPO with an active STJ we'll be in business.  Hopefully the canadian ridging will be enough to keep them south.  

3j7jlt9.png

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I think I said it yesterday or the day before, and I know people want to look at tropical tidbits and see if each GFS run produces a winter storm, but I'd caution against seeing good setups that far out...analyzing whether or not there's enough cold, etc on a 300+ hour model run of the Op GFS will only let you down until the Op starts agreeing with it's ensembles.

Here's the 5-day mean of the GEFS...notice how the ridge axis is extremely tall and no longer elongated west  (see attached post from Monday how the GEFS was elongating the ridging which has proven to be wrong, so far, on the recent modeling)

 

 

 

gqUKNzt.png

and the 06z OP 5-day mean same time period. Note the ridge Axis...the OP is clearly wrong and doesn't agree with it's ensembles. Until we get the Operational showing a pattern like it's ensembles, watching each run for storms is a fruitless effort...however, once the OP does get a hold of the pattern, expect deep cold and I fear maybe even suppression. As modeled - the cold and storms will come, it's just a matter of time. At this point we're on the Cusp of the pattern change by Day 10. 

6Ubq3xx.png

 

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12 minutes ago, Cold Rain said:

Here's the last image from that free video, Packfan (hopefully, Jon can confirm...he's the CFS man).  It appears to be the 500mb depiction from the latest run of the CFS for Feb.  Looks pretty good to me!

 

The daily runs of the CFSv2 are pretty unreliable and flop back and forth often. Here's the latest, for example. It's extremely cold.

vtk4GYz.png

To get a better feel look at the last 7-day average

XP3kfw0.png

This produces this for Feb...I'll add an personal anecdote this is pretty impressive for a 7-day mean on the CFSv2, can't recall the last time I saw it this cold. Usually we'll get a look like this on the 3 day mean, then it will have a torch run, ruining it, rinse and repeat.

GLGekLn.png


The daily runs can help predict the Monthly runs on the free website. 

Seeing this would cause some to freak out about Feb

summaryCFSv2.NaT2m.201702.gif

 

But with the dailies in mind, expect a flip back to a cold look for 1/19 run that will come out tomorrow morning. The CFSv2 tends to flip back and forth quite a bit mid month, then settle on the pattern as we get closer the last few days of the previous month (in this case, Jan 25+)...of course the idea here is that just like anything it's a model, and a climate one at that - the closer you get to your target, the more accurate you'll be hitting it. 

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9 minutes ago, BIG FROSTY said:

Per DT-. EAST COAST SNOWSTORMS -2  if something is  going to happen it will be when MJO moves back intoPhase 8   after feb 7 # 

Timmy Clyde!!! 

I saw that.  Larry has done some research on SE storms and the MJO.  I can't find it right now.  I think that phases 1 and 2 may not be bad for us?  Maybe the phase 8 is better for the MA and NE?  Does anyone else have this info?

 

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1 hour ago, packfan98 said:

I saw that.  Larry has done some research on SE storms and the MJO.  I can't find it right now.  I think that phases 1 and 2 may not be bad for us?  Maybe the phase 8 is better for the MA and NE?  Does anyone else have this info?

 

 I had thought that too that phase 8,1,2 was good for the southeast I might be wrong though I usually am LOL 

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The 12z GFS is fine.  It doesn't need to be, nor will it be below freezing in the SE for days on end.  It's really not a good idea to look at surface temps and surface features in the LR of the GFS and form a narrative about the pattern.  You might as well ask your cat to tell you what it's going to do.  Is the upper pattern workable or even good?  Pretty much.  Does it jibe with it's ensembles?  Pretty much.  Is it in step with other ensembles?  Pretty much.  Have the ensembles been consistent?  Pretty much.  Do we have other pattern drivers moving into better phases?  Pretty much.

Takeaway?  The transition toward a colder and potentially wintry pattern toward month end remains probable.  That's the only thing to be concerned about at this point.  Fantasy 2m temps and storms will come along soon, as long as this trend at 500 mb continues.

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13 minutes ago, Cold Rain said:

The 12z GFS is fine.  It doesn't need to be, nor will it be below freezing in the SE for days on end.  It's really not a good idea to look at surface temps and surface features in the LR of the GFS and form a narrative about the pattern.  You might as well ask your cat to tell you what it's going to do.  Is the upper pattern workable or even good?  Pretty much.  Does it jibe with it's ensembles?  Pretty much.  Is it in step with other ensembles?  Pretty much.  Have the ensembles been consistent?  Pretty much.  Do we have other pattern drivers moving into better phases?  Pretty much.

Takeaway?  The transition toward a colder and potentially wintry pattern toward month end remains probable.  That's the only thing to be concerned about at this point.  Fantasy 2m temps and storms will come along soon, as long as this trend at 500 mb continues.

If it's 15-20 above normal for days on end I don't see why it can't be below freezing for days on end ? In order for us to balance things out it needs to be way below normal for at least 10 days.

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2 minutes ago, Snowless in Carrollton said:

If it's 15-20 above normal for days on end I don't see why it can't be below freezing for days on end ? In order for us to balance things out it needs to be way below normal for at least 10 days.

I mean, it's not impossible to have a couple of days in a row where the temps fail to exceed 32F for a good portion of the SE.  But it's not all that common.  Highs in the 30s or low 40s under sunny skies is not an environment where you get all distressed about the impossibility for snow to fall.  If you have highs in the 30s and 40s with sunshine, it would not be hard at all to envision that same environment yielding below freezing temps with frozen precip falling, if there was a favorably tracking system in the area.

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GEFS seems like it wants to retrograde the pacific ridge west at the end of the run, which would be no good.  You can see the trough try to set back up west again and heights building the SE. I think a quick several day window opens for something wintry at the end of January/early Feb, but I'm worried the door closes pretty quick first week in February.  

That's unless that crazy awesome CFS look with blocking comes to fruition, but not seeing that on the ensembles yet.  What will our strat warming do for us this year? Hmmm. 

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