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2015-16 Winter Pattern Discussion


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Really? I saw the one for 240hrs and it looked like business as usual. how massive? I only see what others post but it sounds like a positive

The euro control on wxbell goes out to 15 days similar to the GFS. It shows a huge PNA ridge over AK and sliding east with a PV lobe dropping down with a large Arctic outbreak pouring cold weather into the central US and spreading east. The anomalies in AK from the building ridge are almost off the scale (+21C) with the cold anomalies also near the end of the scale (-18C). Good indications of the pattern change since the euro seems to be on board. The ensembles are also trending this way slowly.

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The good news is all the models long range are pointing to a different pattern evolving which matches well with the expected transition to colder weather by late December and early January. When you have analogs strongly suggesting that and now long range ensembles and op runs hinting at it you have good evidence that it should occur sooner rather than later.

Again the initial changes will be transient however looking at the big picture they're a big difference from what we've already seen. Furthermore as the pattern changes the cold air intrusions into the south will get stronger/more frequent and the blocking will setup for longer. I am still holding to my prediction for a much better pattern between January 5-10th taking hold.

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The euro control on wxbell goes out to 15 days similar to the GFS. It shows a huge PNA ridge over AK and sliding east with a PV lobe dropping down with a large Arctic outbreak pouring cold weather into the central US and spreading east. The anomalies in AK from the building ridge are almost off the scale (+21C) with the cold anomalies also near the end of the scale (-18C). Good indications of the pattern change since the euro seems to be on board. The ensembles are also trending this way slowly.

 

This sounds similar to the 00z GFS run, which is good!

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Op runs are fools gold...they lead you down the primrose path. best to use ensembles until inside 7 days is what I hear from the experts on the board. But its fun to look and hope.

Agreed, the Euro is good once inside its range and has done well with precip and track so far this fall/winter. It will be my model of choice for when we do get snow chances. All the Euro products I've looked at from the weeklies to the 45 day meteograms, ensembles, etc all point to a better but transient pattern after December 18-20th with a locked in cold pattern setting up around the first week of January. This is encouraging as the weeklies and euro in general has done quite well predicting the warmer weather we've had in November and also December. It looks pretty snowy in January, that's all I'll say :)

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would be nice to roll that forward 5-10 days

The problem I have with EPS is that it's often held as the might ensemble due to the fact it's verification scores are higher than the GEFS. However the EPS was not showing our day 7-10 cold shot four days ago . It was showing the same pattern we are in now. So the EPS can be wrong, has been wrong and will be wrong again.

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The problem I have with EPS is that it's often held as the might ensemble due to the fact it's verification scores are higher than the GEFS. However the EPS was not showing our day 7-10 cold shot four days ago . It was showing the same pattern we are in now. So the EPS can be wrong, has been wrong and will be wrong again.

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when 12z comes out I will be looking for that ridging over Greenland that, when it appears, seems to make things better.  If that is not there and all we see is massive low pressure its curtains...just my opinion.

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lol, those images will be posted here, there, and everywhere over the course of winter

Some of them are okay to post, the regular euro maps through hour 240 are fine (500mb anomaly and others) but the higher res versions, precip, snow totals, etc are against the TOS. Just putting it out there since it can result in people losing their service and/or Ryan losing his ability to host the Euro on weather bell.

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Thanks, all.

 

Some of them are okay to post, the regular euro maps through hour 240 are fine (500mb anomaly and others) but the higher res versions, precip, snow totals, etc are against the TOS. Just putting it out there since it can result in people losing their service and/or Ryan losing his ability to host the Euro on weather bell.

While you're right, he doesn't enforce it so people don't have to worry about it. Check out the main board, people post the EPS all day. Not speaking for him, but it's something he has to do so he doesn't lose the ecmwf. Sharing his models gets him subscribers, so I'm sure unless people are reproducing his maps constantly on another website, they're fine. Just look how many model images (and sometimes animations) you see from stormvista models and those cost an arm & leg. From a moral standpoint, I don't like to share the EPS at all unless I absolutely have to, and I think most people should take that route. But sharing it here and there is no big deal imo.

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actually reading donaldsutherlands post in the general weather forum perhaps a normal Christmas with seasonal temps may be a bridge too far.  milder than avg seems to be in the kettle for 12/25.  tired of eating this stew but we will continue to feast on it for a while it appears

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Thanks, all.

 

While you're right, he doesn't enforce it so people don't have to worry about it. Check out the main board, people post the EPS all day. Not speaking for him, but it's something he has to do so he doesn't lose the ecmwf. Sharing his models gets him subscribers, so I'm sure unless people are reproducing his maps constantly on another website, they're fine. Just look how many model images (and sometimes animations) you see from stormvista models and those cost an arm & leg. From a moral standpoint, I don't like to share the EPS at all unless I absolutely have to, and I think most people should take that route. But sharing it here and there is no big deal imo.

Yeah just putting the info out there since some may not know or be aware of it. While others may do it imo it's not right from an ethical/moral point of view and it violates the TOS. I guess I'm old fashioned but if I agree to something I would rather do the right thing. Plus it's probably hard to enforce it because once someone saves a screenshot he would have no way to figure out who is sharing what when random images get posted.

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LOL...its pretty warm over the conus the next week but then cold dumps into the west. Does it migrate east in early/mid Jan...

I don't even know why I look past day two . The GFS can't keep a long range idea for more than 48 hours . With that said the warm torch solutions always seem to verify

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I don't even know why I look past day two . The GFS can't keep a long range idea for more than 48 hours . With that said the warm torch solutions always seem to verify

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Yeah...but warm December was always the expected outcome but so is mid-Jan flip... :snowing:

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Euro also showing the same weakening in the Siberia region at D10. Question: if the warming is induced in say the Siberia region, would the PV split occur in that area and migrate towards the warming or away from it? Is there any correlation?

 

Well here is 2009 SSW and 2010...

 

http://eoimages.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/36000/36972/npole_gmao_200901-02.mov

 

http://www.meteo.mcgill.ca/~pmartineau/updated_graphs/svw_anim/all_gif/2010_01_30

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