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December 19-20th Winter Storm


Chicago Storm

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South of 401, lol. Theirs a better chance for snow north of 401. Temperatures are marginal. Its around freezing north of 401 too. Wet snow?

 

Remember i dont have access to the raw data. ToBlizzard does. My friend emails me the ECMWF images when they update cause he's doing meteorology in Uni, lol. 

 

I live right south of the 401.Guess we'll see how it goes.

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I live right south of the 401.Guess we'll see how it goes.

 

Depends how far south you live. If anything we may see some CAD in the picture as the models are underplaying the low level cold air from the HP to the north and the snowpack. I think 5cm is a good bet for most of the GTA. 

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Depends how far south you live. If anything we may see some CAD in the picture as the models are underplaying the low level cold air from the HP to the north and the snowpack. I think 5cm is a good bet for most of the GTA. 

 

Just checked out temps on wunderground. All of the GTA is below freezing for round 1B on Friday night into Saturday. Could be some decent accums then. 

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Like hell LOL!!!!

 

Dont know about Toronto, but winters of this decade were WAY snowier than the 1940s-50s.

 

LOL, well for Toronto I found no real differences. The 1940s and 50's were warmer though. The 80s and 90s featured some really crappy Winters. How were the snowfall amounts per winter in the 40s and 50s down your way?

 

Just checked out temps on wunderground. All of the GTA is below freezing for round 1B on Friday night into Saturday. Could be some decent accums then. 

 

Interesting. Just as i suspected. The GGEM is the only model of the three that shows mostly rain with this. 

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EURO still looking good for the GTA with Snow mixed in with ice pellets. A general 8-15cm is possible tomorrow through Saturday morning. 

 

FRI 06Z 20-DEC  -0.1    -1.8    1016      98      97    0.05     553     541    
FRI 12Z 20-DEC   0.9     1.2    1012      97      98    0.09     553     543    
FRI 18Z 20-DEC   1.4     0.7    1011      97      98    0.16     553     545    
SAT 00Z 21-DEC  -0.1     1.5    1011      96      86    0.19     554     545    
SAT 06Z 21-DEC  -1.1     4.4    1010      95      87    0.16     554     546    
SAT 12Z 21-DEC  -2.4     0.7    1014      91      48    0.03     555     544

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EURO still looking good for the GTA with Snow mixed in with ice pellets. A general 8-15cm is possible tomorrow through Saturday morning. 

 

FRI 06Z 20-DEC  -0.1    -1.8    1016      98      97    0.05     553     541    

FRI 12Z 20-DEC   0.9     1.2    1012      97      98    0.09     553     543    

FRI 18Z 20-DEC   1.4     0.7    1011      97      98    0.16     553     545    

SAT 00Z 21-DEC  -0.1     1.5    1011      96      86    0.19     554     545    

SAT 06Z 21-DEC  -1.1     4.4    1010      95      87    0.16     554     546    

SAT 12Z 21-DEC  -2.4     0.7    1014      91      48    0.03     555     544

 

How do you get 8-15cm from those numbers?

 

My call is for perhaps an 1" overnight while temps aloft can support snow. Maybe 2" north of Highway 7. And then a mixed bag of fun after that.

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How do you get 8-15cm from those numbers?

 

My call is for perhaps an 1" overnight while temps aloft can support snow. Maybe 2" north of Highway 7. And then a mixed bag of fun after that.

 

Hmm seems reasonable. Must be the weenie inside of me unleashing, haha. 

 

Temperatures are marginal once again. It'll be interesting to see what the final outcome will be by Saturday morning. 

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Hmm seems reasonable. Must be the weenie inside of me unleashing, haha. 

 

Temperatures are marginal once again. It'll be interesting to see what the final outcome will be by Saturday morning. 

 

So are you retracting your 8-15cm amount? I wasn't criticizing, I'm just curious as to how you derived it. You posted it with that EURO extract so it gave me the impression there was some sort of relation.

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So are you retracting your 8-15cm amount? I wasn't criticizing, I'm just curious as to how you derived it. You posted it with that EURO extract so it gave me the impression there was some sort of relation.

 

I think the models are underplaying the CAD from the HP to the north which may aide in dropping the temperatures at 850mb. The temperatures currently maybe above zero but its a cloudy day. As the storm comes in tomorrow, the daytime heating will have escaped and we can get a nice cool wind from the NE/N. The snow-cover should stabilize temperatures enough for more snow to fall. Thats my 2 cents  But the possibility is their for more ice than snow/rain. 

 

Were still seeing 2-3 different possible outcomes for this event. There is no definite conclusion yet. 

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SEVERE WEATHER BULLETIN

ISSUED BY ENVIRONMENT CANADA

AT 3:35 PM EST THURSDAY 19 DECEMBER 2013.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

WATCHES/WARNINGS IN EFFECT FOR SOUTHERN ONTARIO...

FREEZING RAIN WARNING FOR:

=NEW= CITY OF TORONTO

=NEW= CITY OF HAMILTON

=NEW= HALTON - PEEL

=NEW= YORK - DURHAM

=NEW= HURON - PERTH

=NEW= WATERLOO - WELLINGTON

=NEW= ORANGEVILLE - GRAND VALLEY - SOUTHERN DUFFERIN COUNTY

=NEW= BELLEVILLE - QUINTE - NORTHUMBERLAND

=NEW= KINGSTON - PRINCE EDWARD.

      PERIODS OF FREEZING RAIN BEGINNING EARLY FRIDAY.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

==DISCUSSION==

A DISTURBANCE FROM TEXAS WILL CAUSE A BAND OF FREEZING RAIN TO

DEVELOP OVER THE REGIONS EARLY FRIDAY.  THE FREEZING RAIN WILL

QUICKLY CHANGE TO RAIN NEAR THE SHORES OF LAKE ONTARIO FRIDAY

MORNING.  ELSEWHERE PERIODS OF FREEZING RAIN WILL PERSIST INTO FRIDAY

EVENING.  ICE ACCRETION OF UP TO 5 MM CAN BE EXPECTED IN SOME PLACES.

THE FREEZING RAIN WILL BE MIXED WITH ICE PELLETS AT TIMES.

THE PRECIPITATION WILL TAPER TO FREEZING DRIZZLE FRIDAY EVENING AND

END SATURDAY MORNING.

POOR TRAVEL CONDITIONS CAN BE EXPECTED OVER THE REGIONS FROM EARLY

FRIDAY INTO EARLY SATURDAY.

A SECOND AND STRONGER SYSTEM COULD BRING AN ICE STORM TO THE REGIONS

LATE SATURDAY INTO SUNDAY MORNING.

 

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I think the models are underplaying the CAD from the HP to the north which may aide in dropping the temperatures at 850mb. The temperatures currently maybe above zero but its a cloudy day. As the storm comes in tomorrow, the daytime heating will have escaped and we can get a nice cool wind from the NE/N. The snow-cover should stabilize temperatures enough for more snow to fall. Thats my 2 cents  But the possibility is their for more ice than snow/rain. 

 

Were still seeing 2-3 different possible outcomes for this event. There is no definite conclusion yet. 

 

NAM now cooling thinks off much quicker for tomorrow at the surface. Shows almost an 1" of QPF just from event one. Could be a decent ice storm by itself if about 1/2 - 2/3 of that QPF falls as ice. 

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NAM now cooling thinks off much quicker for tomorrow at the surface. Shows almost an 1" of QPF just from event one. Could be a decent ice storm by itself if about 1/2 - 2/3 of that QPF falls as ice.

I just saw the 18z 4k NAM run and surface temperatures are below freezing most of the day tomorrow, except for a few hours tomorrow morning by the lakeshore. What a dramatic turn of events in the last 24-48 hours. As I said in the other storm thread, I think the same (trending colder in the thermals) will happen to the weekend storm as more sampling of the northern piece of energy takes place.

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NAM now cooling thinks off much quicker for tomorrow at the surface. Shows almost an 1" of QPF just from event one. Could be a decent ice storm by itself if about 1/2 - 2/3 of that QPF falls as ice.

Did you run BUFKIT on the latest Nam? As I suspected temperatures aloft will be cold enough for most if not all of the precip to fall as ice.

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Did you run BUFKIT on the latest Nam? As I suspected temperatures aloft will be cold enough for most if not all of the precip to fall as ice.

 

NAM BUFKIT at YYZ is completely below freezing tomorrow (however, like T4 mentioned, right along the lake may have a few hours above freezing).

 

Regarding the second part of your post...let's go in order:

 

1. Ice occurs when temperatures aloft are warm, not cold.

2. You suspected that the precipitation is going to be mostly snow. I don't see any signs of that.

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Saw that as well. 20mm would be more ice than the April event.

 

Which was damaging enough for Waterloo Region. The city lost power for days. If we are at risk of a repeat of the April storm followed by a larger one a day later... Slightly confused though. Basically want to ask a yes or no question: is 20mm of ice tomorrow a real possibility or is this just one model, or persons, interpretation without factoring in multiple variables? Seems rather bold to make this claim to the public. 

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Which was damaging enough for Waterloo Region. The city lost power for days. If we are at risk of a repeat of the April storm followed by a larger one a day later... Slightly confused though. Basically want to ask a yes or no question: is 20mm of ice tomorrow a real possibility or is this just one model, or persons, interpretation without factoring in multiple variables? Seems rather bold to make this claim to the public. 

 

Honestly not sure, don't have BUFKIT right now but that could reveal where that calculation is coming from. Maybe an in-house model error?

 

If that's coming off the RGEM, it doesn't have more than 7.5mm anywhere around there for the next 48 hrs

 

ZR_000-048_0000.gif

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