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0z Models 12/13/2010


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A lot of major snowstorms occur as a negative NAO period is rising because of the track of this Atlantic block. When a strong -NAO is in place, the jet stream is suppressed to the south, and any storm attempting to gain latitude will get sheared out by the tight jet. It kind of acts like a shield. We are seeing this with the system next week. When the block retrogrades into Canada, a coming storm is forced to the NE along it, and up the east coast. Since the coming -NAO period is likely to be among if not the most extreme period on record, and the predicted block is expected to retrograde into a very favorable spot, wouldn't logic cite that a threat around Dec 19-20 has a good chance of happening? I'd say odds are as good as they get from 7 days away.

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Dave, if this storm pans out, major kudos are due to you. Either way, you sniffed out the model changes that occurred today.

yep

yes they do

folks reading this thread neeed to knwo that this is real close to happening but we are NOT quite there yet

there could be a point soon where all or some of the operational Models turns very Bullish on a secs OR mecs event real soon

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Guest someguy

Dave, if this storm pans out, major kudos are due to you. Either way, you sniffed out the model changes that occurred today.

thanks

the Midwest Low event and this one DEC 19-20 are really most instructional on which ones are patterns that support secs mecs hecs and which ones arennot.

One needs to know this so that when a Model;.. ANY model has a Low on the or neat the coast you can see which solution is crap and which ones is sometihing to start maming one growl

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The GGEM looks good...it may whiff slightly to the east given the PV orientation which is not as phased as the 00z GFS OP. That being said, that's a potent shortwave nearing the trough base at 144 hours and it's most likely signaling the development of a strong cyclone within 12-24 hours from that frame.

Overall the signal for dramatic potential continues..

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Give some reasoning. Why should the amounts increase?

based on history. The models will never show what the true totals will be until we get much closer to the event and they almost always end up underestimating the true amounts this far out with these coastal storms. Why exactly that is I have no idea. A met could probably answer that for you.

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You can loop the GGEM here for those interested to see the pattern progression..nearly textbook given the PV orientation, as well as the broad trough developing near the MS River and then deepening eastward, and especially with the block developing and retrograding towards Greenland and N Canada.

http://www.weatheroffice.gc.ca/model_forecast/animateweb_e.html?imagetype=model_forecast&imagename=00_054_G1_north@america@zoomout_I_4PAN_CLASSIC@012_....jpg

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based on history. The models will never show what the true totals will be until we get much closer to the event and they almost always end up underestimating the true amounts this far out with these coastal storms. Why exactly that is I have no idea. A met could probably answer that for you.

Disagree to an extent. We've seen that happen on occasion but we've also seen amounts decrease to zero. You cannot simply take this "history" you speak of and apply it automatically to this. The signal is there for a big storm but in the end it's also possible there could be no storm.

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based on history. The models will never show what the true totals will be until we get much closer to the event and they almost always end up underestimating the true amounts this far out with these coastal storms. Why exactly that is I have no idea. A met could probably answer that for you.

I agree that there isn't much evidence to back up a statement like this, but at least anecdotally this has happened with almost every major storm, and only few have gone the opposite way, and one in particular was Jan 2005 which kept increasing totals beforehand and NE ended up killing it while NYC metro ended up dry slotted and relatively snow starved (I say that tongue in cheek because 15 in aint too shabby)

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Disagree to an extent. We've seen that happen on occasion but we've also seen amounts decrease to zero. You cannot simply take this "history" you speak of and apply it automatically to this. The signal is there for a big storm but in the end it's also possible there could be no storm.

hmmm happened alot last year.

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hmmm happened alot last year.

Last year had Strong Nino with a STJ on steriods, which is why we saw tons of QPF....

Every year is different, but I do agree about the possible big storm, they tend to upgrade it...

We saw this with the '83 blizzard, '96 blizzard, '03 PD storm, and of course, 2010.

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hmmm happened alot last year.

Last year was a Nino this is a Nina. You cannot make blanket statements like this. No two situations are identical. Perhaps this happened a few times but I can probably find just as many times when the storm never panned out or ended up with lower amounts. The statement you are making is that based on a run a week out the amounts should increase. Not much backing IMO.

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Last year had Strong Nino with a STJ on steriods, which is why we saw tons of QPF....

Every year is different, but I do agree about the possible big storm, they tend to upgrade it...

We saw this with the '83 blizzard, '96 blizzard, '03 PD storm, and of course, 2010.

Right was just using last year as an example but in most big coastal storms, the qpf almost always seem to increase as we get closer to the event. Further, we'll probably see some models, especially the GFS, lose this storm once again in a couple days, to only bring it back once again later in the week.

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