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Banter and BS December 2011


Alpha5

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Another good run. The NAO is on the downfall.

I don't know how many times this can be said...but I guess it needs to be posted again.

1) The NAO forecasts have been god-awful. Look at the correlation and forecast to observed.

2) The NAO may go negative by the hard data but there is a huge polar vortex and low heights over Greenland. That does not help us in any way.

3) The stratosphere is very cold which suggests that high latitude blocking will be hard to come by over the next 3 weeks. Anything that develops should be transient and/or east based. It may still register as a -NAO or Neutral NAO but as mentioned, it doesn't help us at all when you look at the actual longwave pattern.

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I don't know how many times this can be said...but I guess it needs to be posted again.

1) The NAO forecasts have been god-awful. Look at the correlation and forecast to observed.

2) The NAO may go negative by the hard data but there is a huge polar vortex and low heights over Greenland. That does not help us in any way.

3) The stratosphere is very cold which suggests that high latitude blocking will be hard to come by over the next 3 weeks. Anything that develops should be transient and/or east based. It may still register as a -NAO or Neutral NAO but as mentioned, it doesn't help us at all when you look at the actual longwave pattern.

he wont remember nor does he understand. He will continue to go to other parts of the board and post the same chart with a thumbs up no matter how many times you break it down.

He isn't the only one.

We should do a webinar on how to read a 500mb map.

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Much better then having what the euro keeps showing. I hope the euro backs off and comes towards the GFS.

While the 12z GFS is not a great run, it at least has no torch and keeps temps seasonal and on some days below average with a couple of chances at a slop, changeover storm.

Better then 50+ degreees and all rain.

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I don't know how many times this can be said...but I guess it needs to be posted again.

1) The NAO forecasts have been god-awful. Look at the correlation and forecast to observed.

2) The NAO may go negative by the hard data but there is a huge polar vortex and low heights over Greenland. That does not help us in any way.

3) The stratosphere is very cold which suggests that high latitude blocking will be hard to come by over the next 3 weeks. Anything that develops should be transient and/or east based. It may still register as a -NAO or Neutral NAO but as mentioned, it doesn't help us at all when you look at the actual longwave pattern.

John has excellent points here.. Look at the global models a bit as well... The northern portion of the globe is dominated by the vortex and although it does slip south into Canada, there is only very briefly any hint of a transient east based -NAO.. the Pacific also still looks horrendous.. that ridge is massive and in a horrible spot and it doesn't look to be improving..

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I don't know how many times this can be said...but I guess it needs to be posted again.

1) The NAO forecasts have been god-awful. Look at the correlation and forecast to observed.

2) The NAO may go negative by the hard data but there is a huge polar vortex and low heights over Greenland. That does not help us in any way.

3) The stratosphere is very cold which suggests that high latitude blocking will be hard to come by over the next 3 weeks. Anything that develops should be transient and/or east based. It may still register as a -NAO or Neutral NAO but as mentioned, it doesn't help us at all when you look at the actual longwave pattern.

All that type of -NAO does is help to transport the cold air slightly further south, but its fairly useless for keeping any time of storm track off the coast...you will probably get mostly SWFEs or cutters with that Atlantic setup unless you get really lucky.

Its a bad snow pattern south of 42N or even 43N.

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Much better then having what the euro keeps showing. I hope the euro backs off and comes towards the GFS.

While the 12z GFS is not a great run, it at least has no torch and keeps temps seasonal and on some days below average with a couple of chances at a slop, changeover storm.

Better then 50+ degreees and all rain.

Exactly....its winter....I want it to feel like winter. Im sure Im the minority here (odd, considering how many people wanted hot weather during the summer), but at least get some cold shots in here, I can deal with a few days in the 50s, just get rid of the 60s and 70s.

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Not a good run at all. GFS moves the polar vortex north into greenland, and the pacific looks bad with the gfs wanting to develop another rex block over the western states.

MUCH better then what the euro is showing, which is an all out, way above average TORCH.

Take what we can get. The GFS is seasonal to below seasonal temps days 6-15.

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MUCH better then what the euro is showing, which is an all out, way above average TORCH.

Take what we can get. The GFS is seasonal to below seasonal temps days 6-15.

Agree. Jan and Feb are our snowiest months, so we need the cold to come now and the rest can improve for Jan. Hopefully we have snow by Christmas. This type of pattern can give snow - a KU is not very likely, but we've been spoiled the past 2 winters.

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Much better then having what the euro keeps showing. I hope the euro backs off and comes towards the GFS.

While the 12z GFS is not a great run, it at least has no torch and keeps temps seasonal and on some days below average with a couple of chances at a slop, changeover storm.

Better then 50+ degreees and all rain.

Funny how it was the Euro showing the weenie solutions with cold and the GFS showing us endless heat and now all of a sudden it's literally the opposite. Just like that they switched positions. One didn't even cave to the other. They both did a 180 and now are found on opposite camps. Pretty ridiculous.

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All that type of -NAO does is help to transport the cold air slightly further south, but its fairly useless for keeping any time of storm track off the coast...you will probably get mostly SWFEs or cutters with that Atlantic setup unless you get really lucky.

Its a bad snow pattern south of 42N or even 43N.

Definitely. I mean I understand the image and what it shows. And it would be easy to get excited about a tanking NAO if it really were that simple.

Unfortunately it's not. The nature of calculating the NAO makes it deciptive based on where the ridging actually is.

In this case, it's a bummer. And I'm not sure we're coming out of this regime until we get some stratospheric changes.

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John has excellent points here.. Look at the global models a bit as well... The northern portion of the globe is dominated by the vortex and although it does slip south into Canada, there is only very briefly any hint of a transient east based -NAO.. the Pacific also still looks horrendous.. that ridge is massive and in a horrible spot and it doesn't look to be improving..

Patience is going to be required in this pattern. Im sure we'll lose a few to the electric bath.

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its gonna be at least three weeks, and this new cold the models are showing is really suspect. It may cool down, but models always overestimate the amount and the timing. It will get pushed back.

I don't think so this time. The front finally seems to be showing consistency on the models. We're still not sure HOW cold and how long it lasts.

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