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Dec 11-13 MW/Lakes/OV Snow Event?


Chicago Storm

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Ok guys and gals recovering from hernia surgery, painful to say the least.... anyways on to our system. It would appear to me that a slightly more Southern solution is the prudent way to go based on what the models have on the upper air progs. But I think we get some type of phase (of course) and as that happens this thing really takes off, and when that occurs it will pull more to the left, we don't have any way of knowing when that occurs at this point- still way to early. But I'd have to say Eastern/Northeastern Mo up thru ORD and Central Lower Michigan is golden quite likely right now but again that zone will wobble around a lot in the coming days. But with such a system deepening rapidly the track of the surface system may not be as critical because as the thing deepens there will be widespread rapid cooling aloft and then surface temps will respond accordingly giving a wide area a decent advisory level snow at least I think.

great, so your idea of the more 'southern solution' is a track thru ORD to central MI .

Meanwhile my idea of a more southern solution is little rock to lexington....:lol:

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Ok guys and gals recovering from hernia surgery, painful to say the least.... anyways on to our system. It would appear to me that a slightly more Southern solution is the prudent way to go based on what the models have on the upper air progs. But I think we get some type of phase (of course) and as that happens this thing really takes off, and when that occurs it will pull more to the left, we don't have any way of knowing when that occurs at this point- still way to early. But I'd have to say Eastern/Northeastern Mo up thru ORD and Central Lower Michigan is golden quite likely right now but again that zone will wobble around a lot in the coming days. But with such a system deepening rapidly the track of the surface system may not be as critical because as the thing deepens there will be widespread rapid cooling aloft and then surface temps will respond accordingly giving a wide area a decent advisory level snow at least I think.

I hope you're wrong....still think a south side PIA to CLE track will be close.

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With such a powerful jet diving into this thing from the north, I think phasing tweaks may occur even after the models converge on the general track. This may end up being a case where we see shifting of the main snow band right up until 12-18hrs out. Someone on this board may end up getting pissed at the last minute, and visa versa. Going to make it interesting that's for sure.

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With such a powerful jet diving into this thing from the north, I think phasing tweaks may occur even after the models converge on the general track. This may end up being a case where we see shifting of the main snow band right up until 12-18hrs out. Someone on this board may end up getting pissed at the last minute, and visa versa. Going to make it interesting that's for sure.

so your typical winter storm.

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Looks like to me the NAM is probably gonna have a stronger farther nw track then the GFS.

GFS hour 90: 1012 in texas

NAM hour 84: 1008 near SW OK/N.TX

Sfc features when the storm is in its embryonic stage can be deceptive I think. At H5, there aren't a ton of differences between the 18z GFS and the 0z NAM. If anything, the NAM sort of looks a little more strung out with its vorticity.

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SSC the Feb 22, 2010 storm brought a very dense blanket of snow to SE MI. 7.7" imby, 6.9" at DTW. It was the 2nd largest storm of the 2009-10 season. Im wondering if maybe you got rain? It was unusual as we rarely get such deep wet snow (usually its powdery at that depth).

2052-800.jpg

I checked my records. Didn't change to rain but I got dryslotted nicely. 2.4" here.

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Sfc features when the storm is in its embryonic stage can be deceptive I think. At H5, there aren't a ton of differences between the 18z GFS and the 0z NAM. If anything, the NAM sort of looks a little more strung out with its vorticity.

yup....here's the 90 hr 18zgfs which went pretty far southeast. compare to the nam at 84. Looks to me like the nam would make for a much tougher, or later phase....probably due to the differences with the vortex in canada and as you said the strung out look of the vorticity in the west. then again we are extrapolating the 84 hr nam...lol

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yup....here's the 90 hr 18zgfs which went pretty far southeast. compare to the nam at 84. Looks to me like the nam would make for a much tougher, or later phase....probably due to the differences with the vortex in canada and as you said the strung out look of the vorticity in the west. then again we are extrapolating the 84 hr nam...lol

Another thing to remember is the different model parametrization....with the NAM having a 12km grid scale compared to the 40km GFS....and the NAM having 60 vertical resolution slices compared to the 48 GFS....the NAM will almost always have a stronger "more detailed" look to it....that's why the GFS has less Taylor Series equations in it's scheme to go out farther....so I agree extrapolating the 84 hours NAM would be iffy....also a lot of the different model ensemble members are in relatively close agreement with the north of the Ohio River track....and I might be wrong but usually the ensemble members rarely agree as much as they are at this forecast range....which doesn't mean anything in itself but yet shouldn't be ignored.

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Can I presume that most people here think Henry margusity is going to bust?

Realistically, I'm hoping for an 8-10" storm. Would be nice to have more, but want to be realistic. I still fear that we'll get screwed like we did today. Montreal got 10-12" while Ottawa maybe got an inch! After the storm, I'll be anticipating our first air temperature below 0F. :shiver:

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great, so your idea of the more 'southern solution' is a track thru ORD to central MI .

Meanwhile my idea of a more southern solution is little rock to lexington....:lol:

Well I think the surface reflection will be from the panhandle areas up thru the bootheel into Southern Lower Michigan or Northern Ohio.... the rapid deepening taking place between Northern Arkansas and Northern Ohio/Southern MIchigan. The track you mentioned is about where I'd put the Northern Edge of the heaviest snows.

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With such a powerful jet diving into this thing from the north, I think phasing tweaks may occur even after the models converge on the general track. This may end up being a case where we see shifting of the main snow band right up until 12-18hrs out. Someone on this board may end up getting pissed at the last minute, and visa versa. Going to make it interesting that's for sure.

Completely agree cyclone++++

Thanks for the well wishes everyone. I'm so drugged up so I don't know how active I'll be on here the next few days but I'll try and post my thoughts.

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Well I think the surface reflection will be from the panhandle areas up thru the bootheel into Southern Lower Michigan or Northern Ohio.... the rapid deepening taking place between Northern Arkansas and Northern Ohio/Southern MIchigan. The track you mentioned is about where I'd put the Northern Edge of the heaviest snows.

ahhh, you didn't specify low track vs. snow shield in your post,....gotcha

but you're still way too north :P

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