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Feb. 20th - ? Possible Storm


wisconsinwx

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Henry's not sure each morning that he put his undies on the right way let alone dissect and pick which model he thinks is more correct.

Lol I knew once someone read Henry this type of response would show up. There's always a good reason though. To be honest though I doubt this storm is going to be as supressed as the euro is showing. By sat we should have a better idea.

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GFS is not digging that northern stream vortex far enough south over the weekend, thus the further north track with southern storm. I'd ride the EURO attm. GFS is playing catch up.

I just thought the high pressure to the north was stronger on the euro, thus the suppression. I think the euro overdoes the suppression. At this point I think the track may go along i80 in illinois, 100 miles north or south. We will see.

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LOT

met this guy while I was at the office before the blizzard. He doesn't even mention that the Euro is showing all snow here. not a good write up IMO.

FOR EARLY NEXT WEEK...THE MODELS ARE INDICATING THE POTENTIAL FOR

SOME MODERATE TO HEAVY RAIN TO MOVE INTO THE REGION. THE GFS AND

ECMWF ARE STILL SHOWING SOME SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES IN THE EXACT

PATH AND STRENGTH OF THE SYSTEM...WITH THE GFS TRENDING A GOOD 12 TO

24 HOURS FASTER THAN THE ECMWF...SO THERE IS STILL SOME UNCERTAINTY

AS TO EXACTLY HOW MUCH RAIN COULD BE EXPECTED. HOWEVER...EARLY

INDICATORS SUGGEST THAT THE REGION MAY SEE A WIDESPREAD AREA OF 1

INCH OR MORE OF RAINFALL EARLY NEXT WEEK.

KREIN

and Mr. Hype out of DVN

SUNDAY AND MONDAY...MODERATE STRENGTH UPPER WAVE TO PASS ON MONDAY

BEHIND A REINFORCING SHOT OF ARCTIC AIR THAT MOVES IN SUNDAY. THIS IS

KEY AS WILL ADD ENOUGH COLD AIR FOR SNOW TO BREAK OUT AS SFC LOW

PASSES ACROSS MISSOURI ALONG THIS FRONT BY SUNDAY NIGHT. POOR RUN TO

RUN PHASING VARIANCE STILL INDICATED FOR TIMING AND LOCATIONS

IMPACTED. SYNOPTIC SCALE FORCING TOOLS DO SUGGEST AN ADVISORY SNOW

EVENT IS INDICATED WITH ISOLATED 6+ INCHES BANDS OF HEAVY SNOW ARE

POSSIBLE. ENERGY VARIANCE TECHNIQUES SUPPORT THE TIMING AND LOCATIONS

FOR SNOW SHOULD BE CLARIFIED THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS. BLEND OF LOCAL

TOOLS DO SUGGEST AS OF THIS AFTERNOON THE BEST SNOW AMOUNTS TO OCCUR

ALONG AND ESPECIALLY NORTH OF I-80 ATTM WITH A MIX OF RAIN/SNOW

ALONG/SOUTH OF HIGHWAY 34. NE TO N WINDS OF 20 TO 30 MPH ALSO

SUGGESTED WITH TEMPS AOB 32F IN SNOW OVER NORTH 1/2 OF AREA. MAY MAKE

MINOR UPDATES TO HWO PRODUCT ON BEING A BIT MORE SPECIFIC ON RISKS.

TUESDAY AND WEDNESDAY...FAIR AND NEAR NORMAL TEMPERATURES AS WEAK

HIGH PRESSURE MOVES IN. ANY SNOW TOTALS WILL IMPACT TEMPERATURES

AND TOO EARLY TO TRY AND ACCOUNT FOR PROPERLY. PASS TO LATER SHIFTS

TO RECONSIDER. MODERATE ZONAL UPPER LEVEL FLOW SUGGESTS LIMITED

FORCING FOR PRECIPITATION. ..NICHOLS..

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I just thought the high pressure to the north was stronger on the euro, thus the suppression. I think the euro overdoes the suppression. At this point I think the track may go along i80 in illinois, 100 miles north or south. We will see.

What model would you trend toward in terms of strength? I think the GFS and GGEM are a bit stronger than the Euro right now, which has significantly weakened the pressure and the QPF amounts.

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MKE afd sounds like it was written by a 9th grader. So many errors.

THE GFS IS MUCH FASTER THAN THE ECMWF OR CANADIAN GEMNH. IT BRINGS

A LOW SUNDAY NIGHT ACROSS SOUTHERN IOWA...NORTHERN

ILLINOIS...TOWARD SOUTHERN LOWER MICHIGAN AND PULLS IT RAPIDLY

AWAY ON MONDAY.

MEANWHILE...THE ECMWF AND GEMNH HAVE THIS FEATURE COMING OUT

SLOWER AND INTO KANSAS/MISSOURI/IOWA AREA DURING THE SAME TIME

PERIOD. THE KEY DIFFERENCE SEEMS TO BE THE STRENGTH OF THE TROUGH

MOVING OUT OF ONTARIO ON SATURDAY AND MOVING INTO EASTERN CANADA

ON SUNDAY. THE GFS HAS BEEN CONSISTENTLY WEAKER WITH THIS FEATURE

AND FARTHER NORTH...WHILE THE OTHER MODELS DIG THIS INTO SOUTHERN

QUEBEC. THE RESULTING STRONG CONFLUENT ZONE ALOFT HOLDS THE POLAR

HIGH IN STRONGER AND LONGER OVER THE GREAT LAKES...KEEPING THE

GEMNH AND ECMWF COLDER AND FARTHER SOUTH ON THE EVENTUAL LOW

TRACK.

WHILE MY CONFIDENCE IN THE GEMNH AND ECMWF WERE INCREASING FOR A

BIG MONDAY SNOW EVENT...THE 12Z ECMWF CAME IN MUCH FARTHER SOUTH

AND WEAKER WITH THE WAVE...WITH A LOT LESS QPF. THE AMUSING PART

IS THAT THE ECMWF IS SO FAR SOUTH AND COLDER...THAT WE ACTUALLY

WOULD SEE LAKE EFFECT EAST NORTHEAST FLOW WITH -14 TO -16C AT 850

MB.

GUT FEELING IS THAT THE COLDER SOLUTIONS WITH LESS CHANCE OF RAIN

WILL VERIFY IN THE END. DO HAVE A BIT OF RAIN/SNOW MIX IN THE FAR

SOUTH...BUT THIS MAY EVEN BE A TAD OVERDONE IF THE ECMWF TREND

CONTINUES COLDER. THINKING IN TERMS OF A HIGH END ADVISORY...LOW

END WARNING EVENT. GFS AND GEMNH HAVE QPF ON ORDER OF 1 TO 1.5

INCHES...WHILE THE ECMWF HAS NOT BACKED WAY OFF TO LESS THAN 0.5

INCH.

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MKE going likley pops 5 days+ out is pretty gutsy imo. This thing could very well head even farther south and not give MKE area any precip really. I would go 50% pops instead of 70%.

Then you have the wonderful, (sarcasm) conservative GRR office who actually decreased pops for next week based on "new model runs". So basically if it's a chance of rain they're more confident than when the possibility for snow increases. Comparing their morning discussions to their afternoon discussions gets tiresome because they just flip flop with every model run.

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What model would you trend toward in terms of strength? I think the GFS and GGEM are a bit stronger than the Euro right now, which has significantly weakened the pressure and the QPF amounts.

Normally I would go with the euro because its usually more consistent but it hasn't been that way so far with this storm. Going to have to wait for this weeks storm to evolve before the track is nailed down.

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126hr-180hr EURO is much colder then GFS in the Ohio Valley. I posted the comparisions page or two back....It does cut storm 2 and torch us...

Storm 2 cuts but where is the problem? It has had 3 solution in 3 runs. Could be a western of eastern lakes cutter.

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I just thought the high pressure to the north was stronger on the euro, thus the suppression. I think the euro overdoes the suppression. At this point I think the track may go along i80 in illinois, 100 miles north or south. We will see.

That's what's happening at the sfc. But generally it's better to analyze model discrepancies at H5

12z GFS at 96

gfs_500_096s.gif

12z EURO at 96

f96.gif

Notice the vortex over Hudson Bay being show on both models. On the EURO, it's more elongated, scraping Lk Superior, while on the GFS is broader/flatter. From there, the GFS zips that vortex due east and moves it out of the way so the main storm has room to move north. EURO on the other hand continues to dig that vortex to the S/E and "blocks" the main storm.

Based on the good ensemble agreement with the EURO OP run, and the trends of the other models, I'd put my money on the suppressed solution. Plus, the intensity of northern stream s/ws are usually underestimated, which would tend to support the EURO solution.

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That's what's happening at the sfc. But generally it's better to analyze model discrepancies at H5

12z GFS at 96

gfs_500_096s.gif

12z EURO at 96

f96.gif

Notice the vortex over Hudson Bay being show on both models. On the EURO, it's more elongated, scraping Lk Superior, while on the GFS is broader/flatter. From there, the GFS zips that vortex due east and moves it out of the way so the main storm has room to move north. EURO on the other hand continues to dig that vortex to the S/E and "blocks" the main storm.

Based on the good ensemble agreement with the EURO OP run, and the trends of the other models, I'd put my money on the suppressed solution. Plus, the intensity of northern stream s/ws are usually underestimated, which would tend to support the EURO solution.

Thanks for the visuals. This is the same thing that suppressed the last big storm all the way into ok and Ark. Hopefully a blend of the gfs and euro occurs. Does the strength of this late week storm affect how far south the high or vortex goes? A stronger storm would force it further south?

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