michsnowfreak

Certainly looks like more wintry times are ahead! It will be such a refreshing change of pace to see the complaints centered around storm tracks, rain/snow lines, overdone qpf etc versus no wintry weather in sight for anywhere.

That's not it AT ALL, not even close. This board has people who like all different kinds of weather. Cromartie/palmguy/mittenwx was nothing but a troll. He added absolutely nothing to any weather or even climate change discussion and his entire existence on these forums was to do nothing but troll. In the past he had been banned under several names but since we don't have a moderator in the Great Lakes forum anymore, he was allowed to run wild for quite some time. Once his tireless shenanigans were pointed out to some of the board moderators, they took a look at at his activity, said he was like some of their trolls but on steroids, and banned him. Bowtie, you can talk warmth all you like because you actually add some substance to the discussion.

Nice. Funny how we knew it RIGHT away but let him post a few things to dig his own grave.

Yup exactly. December 23 palm guy out, December 23 mittenwx in. The new England moderators will gladly assist in removing trolls if need be, so assuming mittenwx is cromartie (Brown City, nice touch ) the leash will not be long.

Very interesting. 1965-66 is not a surprise whatsoever, it was well-known that a lot of storms were hitting the East and missing my area, but I'm a bit more surprised about 1948-49.

Terrible lol. Detroit (*snow is possible tmrw tho) the top 10 lowest is below. Although considering all the snow records that have been set the last two decades, you're going to set occasional low snow ones. 0 - Dec 1889 T - Feb 1998 0.1 - Dec 2014 0.1 - Dec 2023* 0.4 - Dec 1894 0.4 - Jan 1933 0.5 - Dec 2018 0.7 - Feb 1953 0.8 - Jan 1921 0.9" - several

1948-49 was a warm snowless winter here. 13.7" Detroit, 13.6" Toledo, 14.3" Chicago. Not sure what happened in Toronto, but sounds like a lot of good luck lol. 1965-66 is actually a winter that is on many people's analog list this year. It featured a warm snowless december followed by an abrupt early-mid january turn towards bitterly cold weather which lasted into mid february. For Detroit, it was the definition of cold and dry with the only saving grace that we did manage to keep white ground throughout that month long CAD stretch while the east coast was pummeled with storms

I don't remember the specifics but I do remember how snow was for some reason. evading Toronto and Maine in 2009-2010. Detroit finished with 43.7" that winter and I had 46.1" in my backyard. Not surprised to see 2006-07 on your list because Lake effect snow really saved us here. The only noteworthy synoptic storm was the Valentine's Day storm but we ended up with more lake effect than we would normally see this far out of the belt. Detroit finished with a still low 30.3". We all know that 2011-12 sucked, but Detroit's 26.0" does not rank other than just being sucky. What's interesting about seeing 2015-16 on your list is that while Detroit did ok at 35.3", Toledo did terrible and Flint had a snowy winter. So definitely a gradient year. Lastly, 1952-53 was pretty much a disaster everywhere. At 16.6" it just missed Detroit's top 5.

It will finish 3rd warmest. Mild Decembers and snowy Februarys, while not guaranteed, have definitely become a trend in recent years. 8 of the top 20 warmest Decembers happened since 2000 while 10 of the top 20 snowiest Februarys have also happened since 2000.

Detroits at 2.5". The top five lowest: 12.9" - 1936-37 13.2" - 1881-82 13.7" - 1948-49 15.2" - 1918-19 15.4" - 1965-66

There's too many factors in play, but I would say to give an example, earliest I could talk futility would be late February with above average temperatures forecast for the foreseeable future and 10 inches or less of snow on the season so far. Detroit's least snowy winter on record was 12.9" in 1936-37. What is Torontos top 5?

DTW finished -14.0 in Feb 2015, even greater than the + of Mar 2012. I know we're a different climate out here in Michigan, plus you guys have the warm ocean, but even with overall winter temperatures warming to varying degrees, if one of those PV lobes breaks off and makes a dive for the east coast one of these years, watch out. Detroit has gone decades without an Arctic blast the likes of which it saw in January 2014, February 2014, February 2015, and January 2019. The blast that made Texas lose its shit in February 2021 would have likely had insane temperatures had it hit the Great Lakes or northeast rather than straight South.

Newark was -12.5 in Feb 2015

I say this every year at this time, and this December's pattern was about as bad as it gets, but personally I think it's way way too early to entertain. We have nearly 4 more months of measurable snow potential. I don't think it's too early to think we finish below average snowfall, or that this will definitely not be a favorite winter of anyone's lol, but wayyy too early to talk futility.

We had 2.4" here with blizzard conditions. More like a plains blizzard than the publics perception of blizzard = deep snow. After the wind finally calmed down Christmas Eve we picked up another 2.4" overnight which gently blanketed the drifty landscape and made for a postcard worthy Christmas.

No buds that I've seen here. Its your typical dark gray winter landcsape but without snow and with green and brown grass. Not sure how familiar you are with trees, but some trees winter buds are big, and during winter mild spells people sometimes confuse them for budding (ie magnolia trees). Not saying your wrong, just an observation.

Turning the page to January at least there are more wintry threats on the models and ensembles. Baby steps!

Sorry I wasn't more clear. I meant any SSW, not major. My overall understanding of SSW is very minimal.

Oh I can guarantee that DocAtl will need a snowblower in Chicago at some point.

If i'm understanding right, models still show an SSW is likely, just not as strong as previously indicated?

I was using the official Detroit data, not a coop station. If anything temperatures are now taken in concrete laden areas when they use to not be. 1970s winters were exponentially harsher than Winters of any other decade of the 20th century here. Likewise, 2000s & 2010s winters were also harsher than winters of the middle third of the 20th century.

Is this your first Chicago winter?

I wouldnt worry too much about an amaetur twitter poster from New England lol. As stebo mentioned, too strong of a SSW could mean too much suppression.

Oh for sure. We dont need anomalous cold in winter to get snow. I just meant that is interesting food for thought that the stronger the SSW the more suppression. Makes sense though.

LMAO. There it is again. "Since 1970". Imagine how boring these maps would be if they didnt start in the brutally cold winters of the 1970s? Detroit winters warmed 5.0F from 1970-2023...but Detroit winters COOLED 4.0F from 1930-1980. I have seen countless graphs starting in 1970, but NEVER ONCE have I seen 1930-80. From 1880-2020, Detroit winters warmed 1.6F From 1921-2020, Detroit winters warmed 0.6F. The rolling 100-year avg, 1924-2023, warmed 1.2F and the entire POR, 1874-2023, warmed 2.0F. You can check ANY of that data on X-macis, a site which uses all of the actual weather data in the period of record (not only since 1970). "Since 1970" has been used for years, and it will continue to be the go-to because it will always show the most extreme warming.