EastonSN+

Still does not change the fact that with the current benchmark and New normal it's been a negative departure winter.

No when we hunted woolly mammoths I'm sure it felt way colder than it does today on a negative departure day. However a negative departure on a benchmark is a negative departure. It is colder than average there is no debating that.

My motive is simple in that a negative departure is just that, a negative departure. Past 30-year averages are historic now they do not apply to the current time. Therefore should apply in a historical thread or a thread of another title, nothing more. How is what I said a gross over simplification, please elaborate. Please be conscious of the fact that there is a portion of this audience that does not need to know in a monthly thread that was colder in past times, if you have respect for this ENTIRE audience like you're stating, then you would know that they do not need this added information to understand history. It's time to drop this discussion as both of us have our stances and are not going to be persuaded by the other.

If that is your feeling then fine however you have to have the same stance if somebody says on a warm day that this is not really warm because the summer of 1995 had an average temperature which was 2° warmer.

Thanks for this. I wonder if there are any active volcanoes around now which could create such an eruption as Tamboro.

See this is exactly what I was driving at: "Plus we are living though historic times with regard to the climate and not point this out wouldn’t make sense." Why is there a need to point this out to this audience on a monthly subform? What is this audience going to do with this added information, when the vast majority of this forum were alive past 10 years ago and have lived through it already? A negative temperature departure is just that, regardless of what it would have been in the past. If in 10 years the average February temperature is 50 and we end up at 48 it is still a negative 2 temperature departure. I can't do anything with information stating that 10 years ago it would have been a positive departure. At this point it's a historical fact not current. That is all I'm trying to say.

The issue is not the facts, it is we already know it's not as cold as it was in the past. So no knowledge is gained by saying it was colder 40 years ago. What is the point in continually saying it was colder in the past? I do find history fascinating though, I believe it was June of 1812 that it's snowed in Boston following a major eruption, I saw a program which said that it was so warm during one period in the Renaissance that they were growing grapes in northern England. All of these are great to learn. However just like the average winter temperature in the 1980s is history, so were the aforementioned events and time frames. I mean I am fine with dropping the subject as it's dragged on too long at this point, however, this opens the door to saying this winter would be a torch compared to 1812 or on par with 1256. Basically anybody providing a departure of average to compare it to any point in our past. To me that is information that is not helpful for a monthly weather forum and more akin to a historical monthly forum.

It's not lowering standards if it is an average departure according to an accepted benchmark. Even taking global warming out of the picture the climate has been changing since the beginning of the Earth, and most understand that the one constant in life is change, it should not expect the 30-year average to equal the 10-year average to equal the 200 year average. We have to give the audience some credit. Elder posters lived through winters of the past and would not benefit from being reminded at this cold departure is not the same as their childhood. The only audience that may gain knowledge are very new posters who have not lived through the past but what is the point in telling that audience? Are they going to care if they feel cold today but the grandparents felt colder? Also it's not an artificial cold month if people feel cold and it is a negative departure from a 30-year average regardless of how fast it's warming. Not sure what you mean about lowering standards to achieve a goal, could you elaborate please.

I tend to disagree. What is the point in putting in a historical context outside of an average? What benefit is gained by stating that a current average departure would not be a negative departure 20/50 years ago when posting in a monthly sub forum?

Like I posted before I have no issue having a separate thread to discuss historical averages and comparisons. Is there a specific objection to this?

Then why do we split out separate weather events? They are weather too.

I responded to it already

I still haven't seen reasonable justification against this position

The problem is cold is is subjective. No matter how we carve it up everybody is going to view it differently, so we kind of need that one common denominator which the common public uses 30-year averages. This winter will end up being colder than average. I am all for a historic forum where we could keep track of top coldest warmest snowiest rainiest of all time.

I think the snowflake is clearly you. You just got triggered by somebody who may have gotten triggered by someone who said it's not too cold so therefore you're part of the issue. Listen if you have an issue with me message me directly and we can settle it one to one instead of clogging up this forum with insults.

How are we not to normalize it when we have to move on with life. What we live in is by definition normal for now. I drive a Tesla to help with the environment. I do what I can as an individual however I am also conscious of the fact that nothing is stopping this warming train at this moment in time and there's nothing I could do about it but accept the fact that temperatures have we have now are The New normal and continue with life.

It's a let's separate memories and past comparisons from current statistics and time periods.

I just responded to rjay, for these monthly forums we have a 30-year average established and we can have the true statistics for each month. We can create other channels where we can compare to past averages or past decades. Could be the memories forum or a new one. What is the value in saying it's below average statistically but heck I was colder in 2004. To me that's a memory.

I always thought putting past averages in the memories section. Or perhaps a new forum relegated to comparing this time to times in our past. This way these monthly forums are focused on the current day and we have a channel to discuss how we are compared to decades of the past.

Why would you state sorry if this is hard to grasp. That's an insult and you know it. If you're older than 30 act like it.

Still a blow average temperature winter given our 30 or average.

It's cut and dry really, we have a 30-year average and it's either above or below that average. Done.

I lived through the '80s and 90s. It's a different time now and it's cold for this 30-year period. Why do we care if it was colder in the past when determining if it's cold now?

Yeah I'm extremely confused by posters saying that it's not really cold. The departures from average are very clear. I wonder if we're plus two in the summer if the same posters are going to say it's not really warm.

I guess what is cold or warm is ultimately determined by the individual. To me this is a cold winter to others maybe not so much guess there's no way to all agree on a measurement. Some may think it's hot cause we are probably+5 from 1812.