2026-2027 Super El Nino

[MarcmmKU]

3 hours ago, George001 said:

Yeah it will be warm. The question is more the magnitude of the warmth as that will make a big difference in terms of how much of the precip is wet vs white. There is a big difference between say +2 AN and +5-6 AN. 

Worth nothing that if you get far enough north and or high enough in elevation in new england the correlation between cold and snow becomes almost nil. The climo there is cold enough that a 5-6 F + winter does not meaningfully affect snow odds. If you plot snowfall versus temp for a place like Stowe VT it will essentially be a random scatterplot with no correlation. 

[EasternLI]

5 minutes ago, mitchnick said:

Cfs2 has been hitting hard in October for a while. Considering how far away we are from October, it might be the biggest yet if correct. But is that signaling the big finale?  Idk. Just wondering based on an apparent November forecast peak.

That's quite impressive looking too! I'm not quite sure what to expect with this thing other than a powerhouse STJ. It's unprecedented in many ways. I'm having fun just monitoring it. Tons of interesting aspects. Really fascinating event.

[annunciated]

1 minute ago, EasternLI said:

That's quite impressive looking too! I'm not quite sure what to expect with this thing other than a powerhouse STJ. It's unprecedented in many ways. I'm having fun just monitoring it. Tons of interesting aspects. Really fascinating event.

Good thing NA is on the verge of its cooling-off phase here in the troposphere; it'll be good to see the STJ start to go in a month or two as that temp. gradient becomes apparent

[annunciated]

16 minutes ago, MarcmmKU said:

Worth nothing that if you get far enough north and or high enough in elevation in new england the correlation between cold and snow becomes almost nil. The climo there is cold enough that a 5-6 F + winter does not meaningfully affect snow odds. If you plot snowfall versus temp for a place like Stowe VT it will essentially be a random scatterplot with no correlation. 

At that point further north, you're essentially trading cold(er) air for potential improvements in moisture, if perhaps a greater risk for ice. In my opinion, that could cancel out the warmth's detrimental effects if not add to the snow total average if you can get a good background pattern instead of the polar jet constantly lagging back into Canada.

[mitchnick]

9 minutes ago, EasternLI said:

That's quite impressive looking too! I'm not quite sure what to expect with this thing other than a powerhouse STJ. It's unprecedented in many ways. I'm having fun just monitoring it. Tons of interesting aspects. Really fascinating event.

Yet, and this may have already been mentioned, most modeling shows the upcoming MJO having an affinity for the Maritime Continent. 

https://www.stormsurf.com/page2/links/mjo_phase.html

[ensonerd1233e343]

4 hours ago, PhiEaglesfan712 said:

Yeah, I will always point out that the coldest winter CONUS in the 21st century was during a strong la nina. Strong/super el ninos generally mean warmth, but not always.

It's too early to tell whether this upcoming winter is going to be warm, but if the models are still showing a cold signal in September, then people need to accept that it will probably be colder (and possibly snowier) winter.

Um yea no seasonal models are bad  the last 2 winters should be exhibit a,  im as much of a weenie as the next guy but im not holding my breath next winter for sustained cold and snow ( here in the mid atl) although there is certainly an increased chance of a big storm w a mega juiced stj, but cold? highly unlikely maybe feb will be cold and thats it 

[bluewave]

3 hours ago, GaWx said:

I strongly disagree. 1951-80 has not been relevant base climo for anomalies for a very long time. Normals are supposed to reflect the most up to date available climo. We’re obviously in a notably warmer climate than that of 1951-80. That earlier colder climate is no longer relevant for determining normals.

NASA GISS uses 1951-1980 for its departures with Canada going with 1961-1990. Berkeley Earth uses the 1850-1900 period along with Copernicus and the Met Office.

1951-1980 was the last relatively stable temperature regime before emissions and temperatures really took off.

So using warmer 1991-2020 climate normals masks the warming relative to the past. 
 

https://science.nasa.gov/earth/earth-observatory/world-of-change/global-temperatures/

The NASA GISS team chose the period of 1951-1980 as its baseline largely because the U.S. National Weather Service uses a three-decade period to define “normal” or average temperature. The GISS temperature analysis effort also began around 1980, so the most recent 30-year period was 1951-1980. Their objective is to provide an estimate of temperature change that could be compared with predictions of global climate change in response to atmospheric carbon dioxide, aerosols, and changes in solar activity.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/climate-change/science-research-data/climate-trends-variability/trends-variations.html

Much of Canadian economic and social activity is climate dependent. Understanding how Canada’s climate is changing, in the context of global climate change, is important for developing adaptive responses. The Climate Trends and Variations Bulletin (CTVB) helps communicate to Canadians how Canada's climate has changed  over the recent past and longer, over the period for which Environment Canada has climate observations.

The CTVB describes climate variability through maps of current and past departures from the mean (the 30-year average 1961-1990) temperature and precipitation conditions, both seasonally and annually. This approach provides visualization of the extent to which temperature and precipitation vary above and below longer term average conditions. Maps are presented for each season and year. The data are then analyzed to see if there are detectable trends of longer terms against this backdrop of climate variability for Canada as a whole, and for 11 climate regions. This information is presented as graphs with trend lines to assess climate change over the period of record, starting in 1948 when nation-wide records became available.

Winter National Temperature Departures and Long-term Trend, 1948–2025

 

 

[GaWx]

 The longer range model consensus is suggesting the possibility of a very long MJO phase 6 streak later this month, the 2nd this year possibly reaching 14+ days, and with a likely max magnitude of 2+.

 

Longest MJO ph. 6: # days; max mag

7/28-8/18/1984: 22; 2.5;

7/15-8/4/1996: 21; 2.0; 

10/13-31/2022: 19; 2.2

6/13-30/1984: 18; 2.0;

1/5-21/2026: 17; 2.7

11/16-12/1/1998: 16; 2.5

10/6-20/1988: 15; 3.0

7/19-8/1/2018: 14; 2.5

2/25-3/10/1997: 14; 3.6

 

 

 

[GaWx]

1 hour ago, bluewave said:

NASA GISS uses 1951-1980 for its departures with Canada going with 1961-1990. Berkeley Earth uses the 1850-1900 period along with Copernicus and the Met Office.

1951-1980 was the last relatively stable temperature regime before emissions and temperatures really took off.

So using warmer 1991-2020 climate normals masks the warming relative to the past. 
 

https://science.nasa.gov/earth/earth-observatory/world-of-change/global-temperatures/

The NASA GISS team chose the period of 1951-1980 as its baseline largely because the U.S. National Weather Service uses a three-decade period to define “normal” or average temperature. The GISS temperature analysis effort also began around 1980, so the most recent 30-year period was 1951-1980. Their objective is to provide an estimate of temperature change that could be compared with predictions of global climate change in response to atmospheric carbon dioxide, aerosols, and changes in solar activity.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/climate-change/science-research-data/climate-trends-variability/trends-variations.html

Much of Canadian economic and social activity is climate dependent. Understanding how Canada’s climate is changing, in the context of global climate change, is important for developing adaptive responses. The Climate Trends and Variations Bulletin (CTVB) helps communicate to Canadians how Canada's climate has changed  over the recent past and longer, over the period for which Environment Canada has climate observations.

The CTVB describes climate variability through maps of current and past departures from the mean (the 30-year average 1961-1990) temperature and precipitation conditions, both seasonally and annually. This approach provides visualization of the extent to which temperature and precipitation vary above and below longer term average conditions. Maps are presented for each season and year. The data are then analyzed to see if there are detectable trends of longer terms against this backdrop of climate variability for Canada as a whole, and for 11 climate regions. This information is presented as graphs with trend lines to assess climate change over the period of record, starting in 1948 when nation-wide records became available.

 

Winter National Temperature Departures and Long-term Trend, 1948–2025

 

 

 This isn’t about measuring GW. This is about using the most appropriate 30 year period to determine what normals are. Due to GW, normals have increased a couple of degrees over the last few decades as you know. Thus, 1951-80 has been outdated for decades to use to determine normals, which are always changing.

[EasternLI]

14 minutes ago, mitchnick said:

Yet, and this may have already been mentioned, most modeling shows the upcoming MJO having an affinity for the Maritime Continent. 

https://www.stormsurf.com/page2/links/mjo_phase.html

Yes. Much of that has to do with modeled tropical cyclone activity. Mainly Typhoon Dolphin and 94W in the near term. Other stuff is modeled beyond that too. TC's can play some games with those RMM charts sometimes rendering them misleading. I enjoy looking at the MJO a little more in depth when I am able to. Including satellite obs. Notice around the MC it's actually mostly clear. The underlying MJO signal is poised to make it's way across the west Pacific then interact with the el nino. Beginning to offer amplification as it continues working its way further east during week 2. Aiding a powerful WWB as a result. That's my take on it anyway.  

[EasternLI]

Today's run shows it well too.

[GaWx]

The latest WCS daily PDO has fallen to -2.19, which is the lowest since way back on 8/29/25! This plunge was not predicted AFAIK:

[Terpeast]

3 minutes ago, GaWx said:

The latest WCS daily PDO has fallen to -2.19, which is the lowest since way back on 8/29/25! This plunge was not predicted AFAIK:

 

Likely has something to do with that warm blob south of the aleutians. Not a typical pattern in a growing el nino, but as the NH season cools, that blob should get slowly shunted east as the north pac jet strengthens. We’ve seen the PDO dive in the spring and summer, and then slowly climb in the fall and winter, time and again and this year probably will be no exception. We may even break positive this time with the super nino.

 

[jaxjagman]

40 minutes ago, EasternLI said:

Yes. Much of that has to do with modeled tropical cyclone activity. Mainly Typhoon Dolphin and 94W in the near term. Other stuff is modeled beyond that too. TC's can play some games with those RMM charts sometimes rendering them misleading. I enjoy looking at the MJO a little more in depth when I am able to. Including satellite obs. Notice around the MC it's actually mostly clear. The underlying MJO signal is poised to make it's way across the west Pacific then interact with the el nino. Beginning to offer amplification as it continues working its way further east during week 2. Aiding a powerful WWB as a result. That's my take on it anyway.  

Typhoons in East Asia can definite cause unexpected pattern changes.But the problem is at least to me is there are two phoons while the strongest phoon is directed towards east China,the phoon is the WP actually to some extent counters the phoon headed towards China,you dont see no big height rises into the Koreas into Japan.The -NAO right now is just as well a player,heat should return in the plains along with the MJO moving into the MC,WP,this is MHO