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Skivt2

The 2020-2021 Ski season thread

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53 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

At this point I'm not even sure we will be buying passes this year given VT's quarantine guidelines. I have several ski friends were stopped by country sheriffs in southern VT and questioned (even after quarantining) since they had out of state plates. Hopefully the Berks get some decent snow for back country adventures.

Yes.  Bottom line is people in VT actually hate non-Vermonters. It does not matter if they grew up somewhere else.  Once they have the magic green plate they are better than everyone else.  This has brought that hate into the open.  It won’t matter what the quarantine rules are. Out of staters simply are not welcome.

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3 minutes ago, Skivt2 said:

Yes.  Bottom line is people in VT actually hate non-Vermonters. 

And Vermonters at MRG just hate everyone lol

I think some if it can be justified due to some problematic characters (e.g., swimming in quarries this summer, empty Bud Lite bottles thrown off chairlifts, etc.). I have the same knee-jerk reaction coming from RI when so many folks at URI and the beaches are not from RI. I completely agree with the quarantine policy though and would adhere to it. 

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1 hour ago, PowderBeard said:

And Vermonters at MRG just hate everyone lol

I think some if it can be justified due to some problematic characters (e.g., swimming in quarries this summer, empty Bud Lite bottles thrown off chairlifts, etc.). I have the same knee-jerk reaction coming from RI when so many folks at URI and the beaches are not from RI. I completely agree with the quarantine policy though and would adhere to it. 

The problem is that some of us live in VT 50% of the time and thought we were part of the community.  Apparently we are considered tourists because we have plates on our cars from other states.  The horrible things I see people saying about out of staters ruining everything and littering and stealing things and spreading the virus may not be directed at me personally but I take them personally because no one I know in VT speaks up to discredit the notion that anyone from out of state is bad.  No one speaks up to defend the community members that are “fixtures” in town but not there 100% of the time.  Where are all my “friends” now?  As MLK said....”It’s not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends that is the most painful.”  The world is not as black and white as a lot of people make it.  CT has a testing positivity rate of .9%.  But we are expected to quarantine. I’ve already paid $8,000 since June 1st for an apartment I have spent one night in and I’m pissed off about it.  I am as safety conscious and as anyone I know.  I have not set foot in a store or any building, other than a doctors office, for that matter since March.   I work from home full time.  And I am not blind.  I see all my friends in VT hanging out together on Facebook.  I have a LOT more to fear from them vs them from me.  Moving into the winter where I typically live in VT 4 days a week I will have to break the “rules”.  I can live in VT full time, change my plates, change my legal address etc.  But my husband is in college to become a nurse so he can get a job in VT in the summer of 2022.  But he is going to a CT state school with in-state tuition. The semester is virtual except he has to be in class in person one day a week in CT. He worked hard to get in to this school that takes less than 25% of the qualified applicants and qualifying alone is very difficult. And the whole point was so that we could become full time residents in VT.  But if VT folks really are not interested in welcoming us we will be in a good position to look for other more welcoming places in ski country to re-locate.  Ironically, we had picked VT because we thought the community was great and had made so many “friends”.   Well, at any rate, we bought our season passes for this year and hope to top our all time high of 113 days on the hill this year with or without being welcome in VT.

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3 hours ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

 What I mean is as soon as Flu season gets underway , and people in public actually produce symptoms consistent w Covid (they aren’t necessarily distinguishable) that every single flu sniffle and cough will be met w a different sort of level of concern (that will surprise people) and this on top of the current backdrop will result in doing everything to be safe , especially with the hope that a vaccine is around the corner (in spring ) , That will probably mean whoever shuts down the most will appear to be doing the best job to be “safe”.

They will likely also not only "appear" to be doing the safest thing, it will likely be the safest thing.  

Now a person can agree or disagree if it is "necessary" but just the way you phrased that made it sound like there may be a perception issue in how safe they are actually being.  Sort of like hey, the safest way to drive and not get in an accident, is to not drive.  It's true, ha.

If MLB teams can't even make it a week into a season (the Marlins have "postponed" 8 games so far) without having COVID issues, it's going to be a long winter is my expectation.  Each outbreak will have to be dealt with, no one is just going to bury their heads in the sand and keep going if a ski town or ski area employees are having COVID spread through.

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3 hours ago, Skivt2 said:

Yes.  Bottom line is people in VT actually hate non-Vermonters. It does not matter if they grew up somewhere else.  Once they have the magic green plate they are better than everyone else.  This has brought that hate into the open.  It won’t matter what the quarantine rules are. Out of staters simply are not welcome.

I think most of us from Vermont would respectfully disagree, just like I think you would disagree people blanketing all with different license plates as irresponsible.  Honestly, blanketing ALL Vermonters as people who hate non-Vermonters doesn't further the conversation.  I know this has been a time that has really hurt for you and your husband around your Killington area, but blanketing all Vermonters as these people is no different than when a Killington local blankets ALL out-of-staters as sh*tty careless people. 

There are obviously going to be people on both sides of it... there are more than plenty of very welcoming Vermonters out there.  There are also more than plenty of assh*le tourists who leave trash at picnic spots and fit every tourist stereotype you can get.  Likewise you'll also find jaded locals lurking.  

But continuing to group everyone as either one or the other groups does nothing to help the situation.  Also in the time of the internet and on news stories and facebook posts, there is usually a vocal minority that makes one think all of humanity is racist, terrible people. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

They will likely also not only "appear" to be doing the safest thing, it will likely be the safest thing.  

Now a person can agree or disagree if it is "necessary" but just the way you phrased that made it sound like there may be a perception issue in how safe they are actually being.  Sort of like hey, the safest way to drive and not get in an accident, is to not drive.  It's true, ha.

If MLB teams can't even make it a week into a season (the Marlins have "postponed" 8 games so far) without having COVID issues, it's going to be a long winter is my expectation.  Each outbreak will have to be dealt with, no one is just going to bury their heads in the sand and keep going if a ski town or ski area employees are having COVID spread through.

This sentence highlights what i meant, simply the path of least resistance is people making their decisions base more so on safest possible than "is this necessary".  That can certainly be debated...my point was just that "is this necessary" sort of takes a back seat once once someone makes the first decision to close , bc then there  is pressure for other to follow due to perception of not.  To close resorts is one thing ..to close the outdoor hiking up  a mountain  on your own and skiing down is asinine and exhibit A.

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1 hour ago, PowderBeard said:

And Vermonters at MRG just hate everyone lol

I think some if it can be justified due to some problematic characters (e.g., swimming in quarries this summer, empty Bud Lite bottles thrown off chairlifts, etc.). I have the same knee-jerk reaction coming from RI when so many folks at URI and the beaches are not from RI. I completely agree with the quarantine policy though and would adhere to it. 

It's always present, I mean the term Masshole has been around to describe Mass tourists in VT/NH/ME for decades.  Everywhere that people visit (heck it doesn't have to be a tourist area, a lot of people just hate New Yawkers on the spot, ha) has these things... Jackson Hole hates everyone.  Colorado hates Texans even though they own probably half the vacation homes there, Lake Tahoe hates people from San Francisco.  Hate is likely too strong a word, its just the classic local vs. non-local that's been going on since the dawn of time.  Beach towns and surf communities in California are notorious for this towards outsiders. 

But it's also always been a joke sort of thing.  Like a way to describe the guy in Quebec plates driving down the sidewalk that he thought was an entrance to the hotel in Vermont.  Or when I take my VT plate down to the Cape and get stuck in the sand, the locals get a chuckle.  

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1 minute ago, STILL N OF PIKE said:

This sentence highlights what i meant, simply the path of least resistance is people making their decisions base more so on safest possible than "is this necessary".  That can certainly be debated...my point was just that "is this necessary" sort of takes a back seat once once someone makes the first decision to close , bc then there  is pressure for other to follow due to perception of not.  To close resorts is one thing ..to close the outdoor hiking up  a mountain  on your own and skiing down is asinine and disturbing.  

Yeah I think we are past that point UNLESS the Government(s) go full "Stay at Home" order.  That's when all that stuff closed, from ski mountains to Pinkham Notch to swimming holes, etc.  Sort of like a "we told you to stay the f*ck home but if you can't do that, we'll just close the stuff you are traveling to do."  Unless you think we could get back to Stay at Home status, that stuff is likely done.  That was probably the most "dangerous" time from a freedoms standpoint.  Instead of locking you in your house, Dept of Public Safety sort of agencies started closing up places that would entice you to leave your house.

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6 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah I think we are past that point UNLESS the Government(s) go full "Stay at Home" order.  That's when all that stuff closed, from ski mountains to Pinkham Notch to swimming holes, etc.  Sort of like a "we told you to stay the f*ck home but if you can't do that, we'll just close the stuff you are traveling to do."  Unless you think we could get back to Stay at Home status, that stuff is likely done.

I believe that is certainly a possibility... i know it seems a bit "out there" given we are now a bit more relaxed and enjoying the summer but i would not discount it when Flu symptoms spook folks .  Should MLB cancel and the NFL Cancel....and Schools be mostly remote learning which i don't believe will be far fetched before Thanksgiving..it would seem not so far fetched....to make a stay at home order  part 2 (last time just for a couple months- till the vaccine is ready) not a shock. Melbourne, Australia just did. 

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31 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

I think most of us from Vermont would respectfully disagree, just like I think you would disagree people blanketing all with different license plates as irresponsible.  Honestly, blanketing ALL Vermonters as people who hate non-Vermonters doesn't further the conversation.  I know this has been a time that has really hurt for you and your husband around your Killington area, but blanketing all Vermonters as these people is no different than when a Killington local blankets ALL out-of-staters as sh*tty careless people. 

There are obviously going to be people on both sides of it... there are more than plenty of very welcoming Vermonters out there.  There are also more than plenty of assh*le tourists who leave trash at picnic spots and fit every tourist stereotype you can get.  Likewise you'll also find jaded locals lurking.  

But continuing to group everyone as either one or the other groups does nothing to help the situation.  Also in the time of the internet and on news stories and facebook posts, there is usually a vocal minority that makes one thing all of humanity is racist, terrible people. 

Sarcasm does not translate well in written words.  I actually said it that way to prove my point.  But I’m being serious when I say that I don’t see people pushing back on the haters.  That is a problem.  In no way do I want to diminish the struggles of any minority population when I say this, but like racism, blaming everything bad that happens in VT on “Out of staters” is a form of discrimination.  And those that do not openly push back on it are complicit. This forum is not a place where I have typically seen the issue.  And it makes sense since there are so few VT’rs or even NNE people on this forum.  Plus most VT’rs on this forum are in N.VT vs S.VT where I think this sentiment is significantly worse.  On the other hand, as we begin to discuss next season, particularly with so many from SNE on this forum, I think it is important for those from SNE to understand the atmosphere they may encounter this winter in VT, particular southern VT.   Worrying about being yelled at when going to the store to “go home” or having your car damaged by a tourist hater makes vacation a tad stressful I would think. Honestly by what you guys are saying maybe Stowe or Jay would be a better place for a vacation if you are from NY/CT/NJ/MA and are someone who only skis a few weekends or holidays every year.  It may be a tad safer than S. VT

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14 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

  Or when I take my VT plate down to the Cape and get stuck in the sand, the locals get a chuckle.  

It's probably the combination of the VT plate, Subaru, and driver rocking Birkenstocks with wool socks while blasting some "Fire on the Mountain" getting stuck on the beach than just the VT plate lol

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Just now, Skivt2 said:

Sarcasm does not translate well in written words.  I actually said it that way to prove my point.  But I’m being serious when I say that I don’t see people pushing back on the haters.  That is a problem.  In no way do I want to diminish the struggles of any minority population when I say this, but like racism, blaming everything bad that happens in VT on “Out of staters” is a form of discrimination.  And those that do not openly push back on it are complicit. This forum is not a place where I have typically seen the issue.  And it makes sense since there are so few VT’rs or even NNE people on this forum.  Plus most VT’rs on this forum are in N.VT vs S.VT where I think this sentiment is significantly worse.  On the other hand, as we begin to discuss next season, particularly with so many from SNE on this forum, I think it is important for those from SNE to understand the atmosphere they may encounter this winter in VT, particular southern VT.  

Yeah I could see that, there's always seemed to be more local vs. non-local stuff in SVT when I grew up skiing there.  They are much closer to the significant day trip traffic, maybe they feel they need to fight more for their identity?  Who knows.  I just don't see it up here so that's why I'm always so shocked.  But up here we are in touristy areas but also have Burlington, Montpelier, etc and it is a different vibe.  I live in a series of townhomes and we get a ton of families from out-of-state renting people's units, no one cares and we've had some good ones to hang out with this summer grilling and chillin.  They love the bear here that's like a stray dog, ha.

As I've said before, my buddy lives in VT but has NY company plates on his car, and he mountain bikes at Killington weekly and hasn't heard a peep about out of state plates since April.  I'm sure the experience varies, its extremely unfortunate if you had friends who treated you like that.  I've heard the Killington access road has been packed this summer, the patios, restaurants, etc... the vibe must not be that bad?

Also, best of luck to your husband on his nursing classes.  My mom and two sisters are in the nursing field.  I have a ton of respect for that and wish him well!

 

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5 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Yeah I could see that, there's always seemed to be more local vs. non-local stuff in SVT when I grew up skiing there.  They are much closer to the significant day trip traffic, maybe they feel they need to fight more for their identity?  Who knows.  I just don't see it up here so that's why I'm always so shocked.  But up here we are in touristy areas but also have Burlington, Montpelier, etc and it is a different vibe.  I live in a series of townhomes and we get a ton of families from out-of-state renting people's units, no one cares and we've had some good ones to hang out with this summer grilling and chillin.  They love the bear here that's like a stray dog, ha.

As I've said before, my buddy lives in VT but has NY company plates on his car, and he mountain bikes at Killington weekly and hasn't heard a peep about out of state plates since April.  I'm sure the experience varies, its extremely unfortunate if you had friends who treated you like that.  I've heard the Killington access road has been packed this summer, the patios, restaurants, etc... the vibe must not be that bad?

Also, best of luck to your husband on his nursing classes.  My mom and two sisters are in the nursing field.  I have a ton of respect for that and wish him well!

 

It may be packed but the complaints are flying.  Back when I was on the “in” I got invited to a true K locals only Facebook page.  It’s not public at all.  They have to know you to let you in on it.  There are about 400 people and 99% truly live there.  It’s pretty intense how much most of them hate us and blame us for everything.  One woman’s sandals got stolen while she paddle boarded yesterday at a lake. “Must be the out of staters”

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12 minutes ago, PowderBeard said:

It's probably the combination of the VT plate, Subaru, and driver rocking Birkenstocks with wool socks while blasting some "Fire on the Mountain" getting stuck on the beach than just the VT plate lol

Couldn't be further from a description of me, ha.  It's funny how little VT stereotypes I'd actually fit...   I'm a high & tight haircut (comes anywhere near my ears it's cut again), drive a Honda Pilot SUV you'd see in the suburbs, not a fan of jam band music, and I don't think I've ever gone in public wearing anything close sandals except maybe flip flops to a swimming hole :lol:.  I do like my IPA's though!

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5 minutes ago, Skivt2 said:

It may be packed but the complaints are flying.  Back when I was on the “in” I got invited to a true K locals only Facebook page.  It’s not public at all.  They have to know you to let you in on it.  There are about 400 people and 99% truly live there.  It’s pretty intense how much most of them hate us and blame us for everything.  One woman’s sandals got stolen while she paddle boarded yesterday at a lake. “Must be the out of staters”

I always found Pico to be much more friendly and lax lol

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20 minutes ago, Skivt2 said:

It may be packed but the complaints are flying.  Back when I was on the “in” I got invited to a true K locals only Facebook page.  It’s not public at all.  They have to know you to let you in on it.  There are about 400 people and 99% truly live there.  It’s pretty intense how much most of them hate us and blame us for everything.  One woman’s sandals got stolen while she paddle boarded yesterday at a lake. “Must be the out of staters”

What the hell is going on down at Killington, yikes.  Hopefully it's just a coping mechanism or joking way to brush off frustrations?   

It sounds different than up here when we mostly just get a chuckle about cars going where they shouldn't... like the Quebec or Mass plated SUV driving through the Stowe base area's pedestrian cobblestone little village, like Dad had to get out and move potted plants to gain access because he thought he could park closer to the hotel room (maybe it was @STILL N OF PIKE actually?). 

Or when a zip line attendant radios to me that he thinks a personal vehicle just passed their platform on Perry Merrill... "Are you sure it wasn't a work vehicle?"  "Uhh, it's a black Infinity SUV with Quebec tags and he's about to get stuck under the Gondola, do we have any of those in our work fleet?" "Message received, ha."

That's the stuff that's harmless and funny in all resort towns.

 

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51 minutes ago, Skivt2 said:

Where are all my “friends” now?

I see all my friends in VT hanging out together on Facebook.

Ironically, we had picked VT because we thought the community was great and had made so many “friends”.

As I was reading this, it seemed appropriate that you were frequently putting “friends” in quotes, because I’m not sure who these people are that you’re talking about.  Are we talking about born Vermonters, 7th generation types, transplants from out of state to a resort area, 2nd home owners, or something else?  Everyone’s definition of “friend” is different I guess, but my actual friends would already know every detail of everything you poured out so thoughtfully in that paragraph.  There would actually be no need to discuss any of it or even make it known to them – just from years of knowing me, they would already know my opinion on just about all of that and could easily assume that I was taking all those actions.  People that don’t already have a feel for all that stuff, or would turn a blind eye to the issue are probably more in the realm of “acquaintances” or maybe “neighbors”, but they’re definitely something else.  Yeah, it’s probably semantics, but the overall concept might be one of the confounding factors related to this issue.

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3 hours ago, PowderBeard said:

At this point I'm not even sure we will be buying passes this year given VT's quarantine guidelines. I have several ski friends were stopped by country sheriffs in southern VT and questioned (even after quarantining) since they had out of state plates. Hopefully the Berks get some decent snow for back country adventures.

We hedged and got a pass to the Beast.  First time actually, usually just pay $40/pop for the 4 hour ticket.  

If we can go north, then great.

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I've never had any issues with my Mass plates fwiw.   Granted I didn't go up there after the lockdowns and the bulk of my interactions are grinning in powder or in anticipation of powder.  

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50 minutes ago, Skivt2 said:

It may be packed but the complaints are flying.  Back when I was on the “in” I got invited to a true K locals only Facebook page.  It’s not public at all.  They have to know you to let you in on it.  There are about 400 people and 99% truly live there.  It’s pretty intense how much most of them hate us and blame us for everything.  One woman’s sandals got stolen while she paddle boarded yesterday at a lake. “Must be the out of staters”

I think it's probably best for you to get rid of Facebook, it's clearly impacting your perception.

Getting rid of facebook is a fantastic move for everyone, in general, but if reading this stuff is impacting your psyche and experience this much, probably best to shut it down.

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PF I’ll be visiting my favorite hotel this Thursday-Saturday. Spruce 

gotta grab some carne tacos on Friday from the truck 

I’m looking forward to the cooler weather 

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23 minutes ago, tunafish said:

I think it's probably best for you to get rid of Facebook, it's clearly impacting your perception.

Getting rid of facebook is a fantastic move for everyone, in general, but if reading this stuff is impacting your psyche and experience this much, probably best to shut it down.

Facebook has become the most toxic social media venue out there.  I've gone mostly to instagram almost entirely for photos. It is amazing how much extra odd stress disappears without reading toxic FB arguements.  It's like the outlet that people take all their anxieties out on.

But I agree, if things posted to Facebook start changing your perceptions of a place, it's time to go.  If I look at any of the Vermont news stations like WCAX and read the 500 comments posted under a headline on FB, I would not believe that is the same Vermont I live in (and an outsider reading it might be like, "this state is supposedly progressive?").  It's just all hate all the time, on everything.  People just shouting at each other. 

The best idea is to just go out and live.

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I’m from jersey, which is even worse than a masshole.  We spend a good deal of time at jay in the winter and this year, with my wife and kids able to work and do school remotely, we plan on being up there 75 percent of the winter.  Never realLt had anyone in that area give us a hard time besides some ball busting.  I don’t take it personally, and quite frankly, Jersey does have a disproportional amount of a-holes so I get it.  If someone wants to get off giving us a hard time or judging us as “tourists” have at it.  I think that most people (not all) that you talk to and have a conversation with and don’t get immediately offended by, you realize you are really good people. I just want to ski, chill and drink some beer, no matter what your beliefs or political affiliation is.  

I do agree that preventing us from using our home without quarantine is not right, as im not sure there is a way to quantitatively judge someone’s risk factor just by state, but I’ll play along.   
 

and yes, I think the less Facebook, the better.  I’ve never posted anything besides pictures of my wife or kids and don’t ever touch anything in the news, political or covid related.  Nothing good comes of it.

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1 hour ago, PowderBeard said:

I always found Pico to be much more friendly and lax lol

It’s a K locals page.  Pico is really just another K mountain actually.  Like sugarbush south and north without the slide brook lift

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Pico has what looks like a powerline cut lookers right from the summit down the fall line.  I've always thought it looked appealing although seemed like a no no to try it.  Maybe if it were uphill only...

Anyone know what I am talking about?  

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23 minutes ago, bwt3650 said:

I’m from jersey, which is even worse than a masshole.  We spend a good deal of time at jay in the winter and this year, with my wife and kids able to work and do school remotely, we plan on being up there 75 percent of the winter.  Never realLt had anyone in that area give us a hard time besides some ball busting.  I don’t take it personally, and quite frankly, Jersey does have a disproportional amount of a-holes so I get it.  If someone wants to get off giving us a hard time or judging us as “tourists” have at it.  I think that most people (not all) that you talk to and have a conversation with and don’t get immediately offended by, you realize you are really good people. I just want to ski, chill and drink some beer, no matter what your beliefs or political affiliation is.  

As a NJ expat I can relate.  However, in 47+ years in Maine only once have I had someone take issue with my being from away, and he was a politician with an axe to grind.  CTS (consider the source.) I've never expected to be considered a native, however.   Unlike what Skivt2 posted about born in VT vs growing up there, in Maine there's still some of the "Those kittens being born in the oven doesn't make them biscuits", or as a (humorist) Tim Sample fictional routine, "Chester Gormley was 6 months old when he and his family moved to Maine.  All his adult life he could never understand why folks considered him to be from away.  When he died at age 97, his tombstone was inscribed 'He was almost one of us.'"   

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48 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

Facebook has become the most toxic social media venue out there.  I've gone mostly to instagram almost entirely for photos. It is amazing how much extra odd stress disappears without reading toxic FB arguements.  It's like the outlet that people take all their anxieties out on.

But I agree, if things posted to Facebook start changing your perceptions of a place, it's time to go.  If I look at any of the Vermont news stations like WCAX and read the 500 comments posted under a headline on FB, I would not believe that is the same Vermont I live in (and an outsider reading it might be like, "this state is supposedly progressive?").  It's just all hate all the time, on everything.  People just shouting at each other. 

The best idea is to just go out and live.

Have you waded into Twitter?  Gack 

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4 hours ago, Skivt2 said:

Yes.  Bottom line is people in VT actually hate non-Vermonters. It does not matter if they grew up somewhere else.  Once they have the magic green plate they are better than everyone else.  This has brought that hate into the open.  It won’t matter what the quarantine rules are. Out of staters simply are not welcome.

Buy a car and put VT plates on it.

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I never detected a single hint of bad vibes or an attitude from anyone in New Hampshire, even when I was there with MD plates when lockdowns across the country were still in full swing. Even being in an area that does not get a lot of long-term tourists and mostly seems like locals (Randolph/Gorham/Berlin), it has been fine. To be honest, it seems like the locals have been bending over backwards to be nice because they all want me to spend money on their services and at their shops given the crushed economy up there. Maybe it is different in VT. There is definitely a different feel between the two states; even my tone deaf self can pick it up. But this all feels overwrought to me. If VT guys are like Powderfreak and Phish it seems like a really chill place. LOL

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