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16 minutes ago, jm1220 said:

That’s unbelievable to me. IN is limiting hospital procedures and is nearing/at hospital capacity but has businesses open 100% capacity? No even talk of limiting capacity or closures? 

Pretty much.  We have a color coded system with red being the most serious, but even the red counties have very little in terms of restrictions -- it's limits on gathering sizes at sporting events/extracurricular activities and stuff like that.  Bars/restaurants can technically operate at 100% capacity.  I'm sure there are masking requirements in there when you're not eating/drinking, but obviously you can't do that the whole time.

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15 minutes ago, StormfanaticInd said:

The problem many states are facing is there is no support from the federal government to help these businesses making it almost impossible to do shutdowns 

It's a tough situation for sure.  But how about knocking the bars/restaurants back to 50% or 75% and see if that helps?  

I find it interesting that Holcomb is announcing this now because our hospital numbers have actually been stabilizing or even going down.  Either the hospital workers have had enough and let their feelings be known, or they are scared about an incoming surge after Thanksgiving.

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https://news.gallup.com/poll/327311/americans-mental-health-ratings-sink-new-low.aspx?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=855206&refcd=855206&utm_source=RevelantResources&seid=

No one really wants to talk about it, but how many lives can we lose as "collateral damage" and no even bother to question it?  These mental health statistics are just the tip of the iceberg.  Is the cure worse than the disease?  I don't know.

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22 minutes ago, WestMichigan said:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/327311/americans-mental-health-ratings-sink-new-low.aspx?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=855206&refcd=855206&utm_source=RevelantResources&seid=

No one really wants to talk about it, but how many lives can we lose as "collateral damage" and no even bother to question it?  These mental health statistics are just the tip of the iceberg.  Is the cure worse than the disease?  I don't know.

Any life lost is tragic, but as far as deaths of despair brought on by the pandemic, I am guessing that number is nowhere near 280,000 right now.

I think the "is the cure worse than the disease" debate gets more interesting if you factor everything else in... financial hardships, kids struggling to adapt, etc, although I would argue that if we took the let it rip approach and were sitting on 500,000 deaths right now, that would have its own effects. 

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54 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Any life lost is tragic, but as far as deaths of despair brought on by the pandemic, I am guessing that number is nowhere near 280,000 right now.

I think the "is the cure worse than the disease" debate gets more interesting if you factor everything else in... financial hardships, kids struggling to adapt, etc, although I would argue that if we took the let it rip approach and were sitting on 500,000 deaths right now, that would have its own effects. 

I agree, but that article was only about one piece of the puzzle.  There are many more factors like you said and in places like Japan, there were more suicides in October than COVID deaths all year combined.  I know they have a high suicide rate to begin with but that is a crazy statistic.

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30 minutes ago, WestMichigan said:

I agree, but that article was only about one piece of the puzzle.  There are many more factors like you said and in places like Japan, there were more suicides in October than COVID deaths all year combined.  I know they have a high suicide rate to begin with but that is a crazy statistic.

Its only crazy because they took strong measures to slow the spread. They have like 2420 covid deaths. I bet suicides will outrank covid in New Zealand Australia and South Korea too...

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1 hour ago, WestMichigan said:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/327311/americans-mental-health-ratings-sink-new-low.aspx?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=855206&refcd=855206&utm_source=RevelantResources&seid=

No one really wants to talk about it, but how many lives can we lose as "collateral damage" and no even bother to question it?  These mental health statistics are just the tip of the iceberg.  Is the cure worse than the disease?  I don't know.

but i think those tradeoffs were considered.  at the end of the day, would you allow, say, 2 million people to die in order to prevent a hypothetical 10% increase in the suicide rate?  currently, there's been an increase in suicides amongst health care workers because they've been working practically nonstop for the past 9 months and they feel like nothing is being done to help them.

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2 hours ago, StormfanaticInd said:

The problem many states are facing is there is no support from the federal government to help these businesses making it almost impossible to do shutdowns 

Certainly not how NY is doing it. Cuomo has been threatening shutdowns again and although the outbreak is worsening here it’s nowhere near some of these badly affected Midwest states over the last 2-3 months. 

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2 hours ago, StormfanaticInd said:

The problem many states are facing is there is no support from the federal government to help these businesses making it almost impossible to do shutdowns 

And that's the part of this I don't understand...why hasn't there been more federal support for these small businesses? And how does our response in this area measure against other developed countries supporting their small businesses?

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2 minutes ago, Maestrobjwa said:

And that's the part of this I don't understand...why hasn't there been more federal support for these small businesses? And how does our response in this area measure against other developed countries supporting their small businesses?

Because our government sucks.  Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, and there hasn't been enough done.

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2 hours ago, WestMichigan said:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/327311/americans-mental-health-ratings-sink-new-low.aspx?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=855206&refcd=855206&utm_source=RevelantResources&seid=

No one really wants to talk about it, but how many lives can we lose as "collateral damage" and no even bother to question it?  These mental health statistics are just the tip of the iceberg.  Is the cure worse than the disease?  I don't know.

It's a very real truth; suicides and abuse are increasing.   All for something that is not that fatal.  

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49 minutes ago, Hoosier said:

Because our government sucks.  Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, and there hasn't been enough done.

Nowhere near enough especially compared to what other countries are doing for their citizens. America has more than enough money but they are playing politics in a once in a lifetime pandemic 

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1 hour ago, dta1984 said:

It's a very real truth; suicides and abuse are increasing.   All for something that is not that fatal.  

you do realize that covid is the leading cause of death in america right now, correct?  but other than that, sure, it's not fatal.

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1 hour ago, Maestrobjwa said:

And that's the part of this I don't understand...why hasn't there been more federal support for these small businesses? And how does our response in this area measure against other developed countries supporting their small businesses?

i believe that the european countries that are currently under restrictions gave people/businesses money in advance.

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4 hours ago, WestMichigan said:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/327311/americans-mental-health-ratings-sink-new-low.aspx?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=855206&refcd=855206&utm_source=RevelantResources&seid=

No one really wants to talk about it, but how many lives can we lose as "collateral damage" and no even bother to question it?  These mental health statistics are just the tip of the iceberg.  Is the cure worse than the disease?  I don't know.

I really don't think people are forgetting mental health. People have been clamoring for mental health funding for years only to have it fall on deaf ears. It is that funding that would be in place for situations like this.

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3 hours ago, Stebo said:

I really don't think people are forgetting mental health. People have been clamoring for mental health funding for years only to have it fall on deaf ears. It is that funding that would be in place for situations like this.

Or the $500+ Billion in small business loans in April that had the oversight cut into by this administration, thereby missing a lot of small businesses that really needed it. That would’ve gone a long way in keeping hope afloat. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/5681021002

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9 minutes ago, Stebo said:

I really don't think people are forgetting mental health. People have been clamoring for mental health funding for years only to have it fall on deaf ears. It is that funding that would be in place for situations like this.

Most arguing about mental health now are not doing it in good faith. Stating it just helps their argument against doing literally anything about virus spread. Mental health has always been ignored by so many, and most of the people bringing it up now only do so because it helps argument they’re making.

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