Occasional Thoughts on Climate Change

[GaWx]

9 minutes ago, FPizz said:

Is it accelerating because of GW, or is it that since it is smaller ice absorbs heat more quickly then when it was larger?  I always wondered that.

Thanks. Please elaborate. I’m not sure I’m following what you’re asking.

[Typhoon Tip]

49 minutes ago, GaWx said:

 Thanks, Charlie, for posing that. None of what you posted from that article surprises me. I’m not at all expecting to take JB’s side, especially because he’s a proud denier of AGW being a significant factor in GW.

 But what do you know about his statement that Nepal hasn’t warmed in 400 years? Did he just make this up? From where would he have gotten accurate data so far back?
 

 Also, does that map of his that I reposted supposedly showing a somewhat cooler than normal summer along the Nepal-Tibet border have any significance even if accurate? I noticed it has no legend and no reference like the base period and the period these blue colors are representing. He’s saying this is the “wrong summer” to claim a disaster was based on GW. But even if it truly was cooler than normal this summer there, would that even matter being that melting supposedly would have already been put in motion due to supposedly prior warmer than normal periods?

Here's a not-so-novel aspect about ice vs water: when water freezes its volume necessarily expands by 12% to make room for the H20 molecules arranging geometrically into their crystalline position/lattice. That lattice then requires more space in order to achieve this hexagonal configuration among the handshaking molecules.   

    etc...

What may or may not be more novel is the application of this basic principle as partial triggering mechanism.  If the combination of CC and summer sun have been periodically thawing and refreezing the glacial mass over and over again (decadal), the interstitial integrity of glacial body may have cracked.  Fracturing over recent years.  

Basically we're just describing the glacial destabilization near it's front edge and the pooling of near freezing water and seepage that goes on with the retreating. It's a complex system, but at the end of the day, epistemic awareness ... We can either spend 20 years formulating a high degree confidence polynomial mathematical expression that describes a system to within 99% certainty, proving what we already know, or, we just have to accept that expanding and contracting the ice through these processes will weaken it over time. This both increases calving events, in turn increasing the probability for this to have occurred.

Increasing glacial melt --> filling glacial lakes and kettle geological features --> upstream calving then careens forth and there we go

[donsutherland1]

9 hours ago, GaWx said:

 I just watched Joe Bastardi’s free to the public Saturday Summary. He says the Nepal disaster has nothing to do with CC. Why?

-He says that there has been no net change in temperature in Nepal in 400 years!

-He shows a summer temp. anomaly map that has blue colors all over Tibet  including the Tibet-Nepal border.

 So, I’d like to know whether or not these two things are true. Anyone know?

@donsutherland1

The dates are cropped off his map, which is bad practice at a minimum. June was near normal with an area of cool anomalies in the Nepal/Tibet region. July was mainly warmer than normal. Here are the maps for June and July from Copernicus:

June:

July:

The region saw extreme heat during August 10-15, 2026. Kathmandu reached 32.3C (90.1F) on August 11, setting a daily record. Nepal's Department of Hydrology and Meteorology also reported that the mercury soared to 38.5C (101.3F) at Janakpur on August 13 and 37.5C (99.5F) at Lahan on August 15. Whether or not this round of heat was critical to destabilizing things remains to be seen.

Finally, Nepal has been warming dramatically in recent years.

Finally, Nepal has been warming somewhat faster than the climate model projections.

 

[FPizz]

30 minutes ago, GaWx said:

Thanks. Please elaborate. I’m not sure I’m following what you’re asking.

I'm sorry, is the ice melt actually accelerating because of GW, or does it only seem that way because as the ice sheet has been getting smaller for 1000s of years, the rate of acceleration increased because the smaller the ice, the more heat it absorbs.  A larger piece of ice has a massive volume packed behind a smaller proportional surface area. It needs a lot more heat energy to change from solid to liquid, which takes more time.  As it gets smaller, that accelerates. 

[GaWx]

18 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

The dates are cropped off his map, which is bad practice at a minimum. June was near normal with an area of cool anomalies in the Nepal/Tibet region. July was mainly warmer than normal. Here are the maps for June and July from Copernicus:

June:

July:

The region saw extreme heat during August 10-15, 2026. Kathmandu reached 32.3C (90.1F) on August 11, setting a daily record. Nepal's Department of Hydrology and Meteorology also reported that the mercury soared to 38.5C (101.3F) at Janakpur on August 13 and 37.5C (99.5F) at Lahan on August 15. Whether or not this round of heat was critical to destabilizing things remains to be seen.

Finally, Nepal has been warming dramatically in recent years.

 

 

Thanks, Don!

 -I agree with you about the lack of dates and other references on his map, which I mentioned to Charlie in my reply to him. That makes me wonder if he’s hiding something.

 -So, based on your June and July maps, June-July averaged near normal along the Nepal-Tibet border vs a 1991-2020 base, the warmest 30 year base. Taking that as well as the extreme heat of Aug 10-15 into account, it would seemingly have had to have been much colder than normal Aug 1-9 and Aug 16+ to possibly result in a cooler than normal summer. I have my doubts knowing who we’re dealing with here.

-He also has nearly all of Tibet in blue colors. But your June/July maps averaged out appear to average warmer than normal over much of Tibet if I’m interpreting them correctly. Thus, August would have had to have been an overall cold month to have a chance to overcome the warmer than avg June-July.

[GaWx]

14 minutes ago, FPizz said:

I'm sorry, is the ice melt actually accelerating because of GW, or does it only seem that way because as the ice sheet has been getting smaller for 1000s of years, the rate of acceleration increased because the smaller the ice, the more heat it absorbs.  A larger piece of ice has a massive volume packed behind a smaller proportional surface area. It needs a lot more heat energy to change from solid to liquid, which takes more time.  As it gets smaller, that accelerates. 

Thanks for elaborating. I see. But this begs the question: why is the ice sheet getting smaller in the first place? Isn’t that in itself due to GW? 

[donsutherland1]

1 hour ago, GaWx said:

Thanks, Don!

 -I agree with you about the lack of dates and other references on his map, which I mentioned to Charlie in my reply to him. That makes me wonder if he’s hiding something.

 -So, based on your June and July maps, June-July averaged near normal along the Nepal-Tibet border vs a 1991-2020 base, the warmest 30 year base. Taking that as well as the extreme heat of Aug 10-15 into account, it would seemingly have had to have been much colder than normal Aug 1-9 and Aug 16+ to possibly result in a cooler than normal summer. I have my doubts knowing who we’re dealing with here.

-He also has nearly all of Tibet in blue colors. But your June/July maps averaged out appear to average warmer than normal over much of Tibet if I’m interpreting them correctly. Thus, August would have had to have been an overall cold month to have a chance to overcome the warmer than avg June-July.

In a few days, the August monthly anomaly will also be available on Copernicus. Even if the summer average were cooler than normal, it's worth pointing out that the toll taken on glaciers in a warming climate is cumulative. Glaciers don't reset automatically when things turn cooler. That's a point Bastardi either doesn't understand or chooses to ignore. 

[GaWx]

13 minutes ago, donsutherland1 said:

In a few days, the August monthly anomaly will also be available on Copernicus. Even if the summer average were cooler than normal, it's worth pointing out that the toll taken on glaciers in a warming climate is cumulative. Glaciers don't reset automatically when things turn cooler. That's a point Bastardi either doesn't understand or chooses to ignore. 

 Don, your entire post 100% makes sense. Regardless, please post the August map if you get a chance. Even assuming one cooler than normal summer wouldn’t suddenly stabilize the glaciers, I want to see whether or not his supposed summer map is essentially a lie in itself. TIA.

 And on what the heck is he basing his statement that Nepal hasn’t warmed in 400 years?? Is this just made up out of thin air?

[Brewbeer]

2 hours ago, FPizz said:

I'm sorry, is the ice melt actually accelerating because of GW, or does it only seem that way because as the ice sheet has been getting smaller for 1000s of years, the rate of acceleration increased because the smaller the ice, the more heat it absorbs.  A larger piece of ice has a massive volume packed behind a smaller proportional surface area. It needs a lot more heat energy to change from solid to liquid, which takes more time.  As it gets smaller, that accelerates. 

yes