NorthShoreWx Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Agreed that the 12/27 snowfall at OKX seems high and the 12/28 snowdepth at Mt Sinai seems low, but I can shed some light on some of the other questions raised. The crab meadow snow depth may have been accurate for that location but it may not have been a good location. I noticed some north shore hills overlooking the sound that were scoured almost bare of snow by the wind during the December blizzard...that may have been a factor at the crab meadow site. Ratios during that storm on LI were not good, perhaps 10:1 due to the relatively poor quality of snowflake that fell and the beating it took from the wind. Neither the 19" total at OKX nor the rapid settling of snow at certain locations seems consistent with the observations from that day. Soon I will post Snow Depth Days from the co-op sites on Long Island, as well as Upton. However, while doing some quality-checking, I came across some glaring inconsistencies between snowfall and snow depth for the Dec 26-27 event. Unfortunately, even for co-op sites and other semi-official sites like Upton, these types of errors are not uncommon. Keep in mind the snow ended around 14z on Dec 27 in eastern and central Suffolk County, and only around 0.5 to 2" fell after 12z Dec 27. Radar loop: http://radblast-sf.w...=640&height=480 Here are the numbers for Dec 26-27 - it's easy to see what doesn't belong There is ample evidence from surrounding reports that the snowfall for Upton is too high, and the snow depth for Mount Sinai too low. Upton's snowfall for the event should be about 15", and Mount Sinai's depth at 0z Dec 28 should have been about 13". The Dec 26-27 event was all snow at Upton, and temps only reached the mid 20s during the event. So there is no reason much melting of falling snow would have occurred - only some compaction because the snow was fairly dry and winds were quite strong. Even with the strong winds, it seems to be stretching the limits of possibility that the snow on the ground could have compacted 4-5" while snow was still falling. Centerport: Snowfall Dec 26-27: 15.0" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 27: 14" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 28: 12" Islip Airport: Snowfall Dec 26-27: 14.2" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 27: 14" Snow Depth at 0z Dec 28: 13" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 28: 12" Upton Snowfall Dec 26-27:: 18.8" Snow Depth at 12z Dec 27: 14" Snow Depth at 0z Dec 28: 13" Mount Sinai: Snowfall: 14.4" Snow Depth at 0z Dec 28: 9" ---- Also, the snowfall total for Crab Meadow for the Dec 26-27 event seems quite low . Crab Meadow is 0.5 miles from LI Sound, between Centerport and Smithtown, and within 2 miles of East Northport. All of the stations below (except for Smithtown) are part of the NWS COCORAHS network. Smithtown data is from NorthShoreWx. Northport 2 NNE (Crab Meadow): Snowfall Dec 26-27: 9.1" Smithtown, NY Snowfall Dec 26-27: 12" East Northport, NY: Snowfall Dec 26-27: 15" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Upton, Long Island (Brookhaven Nat'l Laboratory) had 9" on the ground as of this morning. Amazingly, they have not lost snow cover since Monday. They now have 47 straight days of at least 1" snow cover. The record streak for at least 1" snow cover at Upton is 55 days - from Dec 26, 1947 to Feb 18, 1948. http://www.bnl.gov/w...st/extreme.html Looks to be difficult but not impossible for them to at least tie the record. 3 more days of snow cover seems assured, but Sun/Mon and late next week will likely see big losses with warm temps and SW flow. I had 15" on Monday and 13" this morning. The difference in snowfall between the south shore and north shore is no mystery to anyone who lives on LI, but the difference in snowdepth between parts of SW Nassau (presumably closest to the ocean) that are reported as bare ground/old piles and here is about as extreme as I've seen it. FWIW, there is still snowcover right up to the waters edge in SE Nassau: http://www.instacam....id=MSFPQ&size=L I took some photos here about a half hour ago: Snow on the deck around my neighbors crumbling pool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamarack Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Another site which has archived data, including high/low temps, snowfall and snow depth, for NWS observing sites and co-op sites is: http://climate.usurf...oducts/data.php Type in a city, zoom in or out, and click on the purple dots (indicating an active site) or yellow dots (indicating an inactive site). It is usually updated every few months for most sites, but is good for historical purposes. Since last summer they've evidently gotten most observers online, and the numbers are updated almost daily, though with some problems. Dec. 16-31 is missing for every station I've checked (no Boxing Day data - grrrr), and last I looked was 2/7 and nothing showed beyond 2/3-4. Still better than waiting until the first heatwave to see the previous winter's numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jconsor Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Your streak of 31 days with 10"+ snow cover in Smithtown is quite remarkable. I surveyed all co-op sites on Long Island, including LGA and JFK, and could only find three such streaks of more than 20 days. Here they are: 1) Medford, NY (Patchogue 2N): Jan 20 to Feb 9, 1961 - 21 days 2) Bridgehampton, NY: Jan 20 to Feb 18, 1961 - 30 days 3) Baiting Hollow, NY (Riverhead Research Farm): Feb 6 to Mar 11, 1978 - 34 days It is very possible that you could tie or break the Baiting Hollow record, given the recent resilience of the snow pack at your location even on days with temps 5-7F above normal. Regarding 1"+ snow cover streaks, the only one I can find that is longer than Upton's 55 days in 1947-48 is: Malverne, NY: Dec 26, 1947 to Feb 28, 1948 - 65 days (Baiting Hollow likely had about a 57 day streak of 1"+ snow cover in 1947-48, but missing data make that number unofficial). Granted, there are gaps in data. Nearly all co-op sites with the most comprehensive record are either near the South Shore or in eastern Suffolk - Medford (Patchogue 2N), Bridgehampton, Baiting Hollow (Riverhead Research Farm), Cutchogue. Mineola is the one exception, but they seem to have a low bias on many 10"+ snow events. Note: I am not including data from the Babylon co-op site (which was in existence from 1918 to 1959), due to its extremely high bias for snowfall and snow depth. The Babylon site had a 53 day streak of 10"+ snow pack in 1947-48, but they reported only 10" snow pack on Jan 13. Their snow depth for that winter is way out of proportion to surrounding sites, such as Mineola and Patchogue. I had 15" on Monday and 13" this morning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 The Babylon coop observer was ahead of his time. He would be an instant candidate for WOTY around here. One of his more outrageous reports (that made it into the KU book) was from the late February or early March 1949 storm, but there are lots more. If there was an inch or two he was usually in line with his neighbors, but whenever there was more than that (and for snowdepth) it was slanted ruler in a drift FTW. At least that is my reading of the Babylon record. I can't prove or disprove anything but if you took the name of the town off the header, you'd think it was in an upstate snowbelt. As for the streak here...I have seen nothing like it before. I'm loving this winter. I might do February a bit differently, but I'm high maintenance when it comes to winter. I'll probably be dissapointed when we fall a few feet short of 100" Your streak of 31 days with 10"+ snow cover in Smithtown is quite remarkable. I surveyed all co-op sites on Long Island, including LGA and JFK, and could only find three such streaks of more than 20 days. Here they are: 1) Medford, NY (Patchogue 2N): Jan 20 to Feb 9, 1961 - 21 days 2) Bridgehampton, NY: Jan 20 to Feb 18, 1961 - 30 days 3) Baiting Hollow, NY (Riverhead Research Farm): Feb 6 to Mar 11, 1978 - 34 days It is very possible that you could tie or break the Baiting Hollow record, given the recent resilience of the snow pack at your location even on days with temps 5-7F above normal. Regarding 1"+ snow cover streaks, the only one I can find that is longer than Upton's 55 days in 1947-48 is: Malverne, NY: Dec 26, 1947 to Feb 28, 1948 - 65 days (Baiting Hollow likely had about a 57 day streak of 1"+ snow cover in 1947-48, but missing data make that number unofficial). Granted, there are gaps in data. Nearly all co-op sites with the most comprehensive record are either near the South Shore or in eastern Suffolk - Medford (Patchogue 2N), Bridgehampton, Baiting Hollow (Riverhead Research Farm), Cutchogue. Mineola is the one exception, but they seem to have a low bias on many 10"+ snow events. Note: I am not including data from the Babylon co-op site (which was in existence from 1918 to 1959), due to its extremely high bias for snowfall and snow depth. The Babylon site had a 53 day streak of 10"+ snow pack in 1947-48, but they reported only 10" snow pack on Jan 13. Their snow depth for that winter is way out of proportion to surrounding sites, such as Mineola and Patchogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jm1220 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I had 15" on Monday and 13" this morning. The difference in snowfall between the south shore and north shore is no mystery to anyone who lives on LI, but the difference in snowdepth between parts of SW Nassau (presumably closest to the ocean) that are reported as bare ground/old piles and here is about as extreme as I've seen it. FWIW, there is still snowcover right up to the waters edge in SE Nassau: http://www.instacam....id=MSFPQ&size=L I took some photos here about a half hour ago: Snow on the deck around my neighbors crumbling pool: Wow, looks great there. As you would expect, it looks nothing like that here at all. We're mostly down to large piles, although shaded lawns still have snow cover for the most part. My backyard is still a massive glacier. That's what a couple of very moist/foggy 40+ degree torches will do to us. You probably topped out at 33-34. But even for as long as the snow stuck around here, it was huge for this area. It's just extremely hard to keep it this close to the ocean and as susceptible as we are to coastal fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthShoreWx Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Wow, looks great there. As you would expect, it looks nothing like that here at all. We're mostly down to large piles, although shaded lawns still have snow cover for the most part. My backyard is still a massive glacier. That's what a couple of very moist/foggy 40+ degree torches will do to us. You probably topped out at 33-34. But even for as long as the snow stuck around here, it was huge for this area. It's just extremely hard to keep it this close to the ocean and as susceptible as we are to coastal fronts. Having lived in Babylon a mile south of Sunrise Highway for 9 years I know exactly what you mean. There was many a dissapointing winter day driving home from work on the snowy north shore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Having lived in Babylon a mile south of Sunrise Highway for 9 years I know exactly what you mean. There was many a dissapointing winter day driving home from work on the snowy north shore. Some of its the Ocean Ed, but it also has to do with how built up this area is. It's basically an extension of New York City with all the asphalt and concrete lol. This is probably why you see the differences between SW and SE Nassau. Someone needs to go measure in North Woodmere Park Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 8" now in the park...We lost two yesterday...Today we'll lose another 1 or 2 inches...By the end of next week the ground should be bare except for plowed piles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 8" now in the park...We lost two yesterday...Today we'll lose another 1 or 2 inches...By the end of next week the ground should be bare except for plowed piles... Central Park will not make the 47-48 record for continuous snow cover unless we get a hit from a clipper/Miller B in the next few days. It's unfortunate that the warm spell is coming at exactly the wrong time for the record's sake, but it was bound to happen at some point. It's still impressive that we could challenge 47-48 given the increased urban heat island and the generally warmer climate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cfa Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 8" now in the park...We lost two yesterday...Today we'll lose another 1 or 2 inches...By the end of next week the ground should be bare except for plowed piles... Interesting, here the grass has been very prevalent for a while now, there's still some snow but it's mainly along the sides of paths/sidewalks/streets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isotherm Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Back home in Monmouth County today and impressed how much is still left. Measured a solid 10" average, with some spots still up to 13-14" or so in the drifts. Snow's hard as rock, can walk on top without falling through as many have already noted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yhbrooklyn Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 For those wondering, the top 10 pre-Feb snowfall seasons average 16.41" from Feb 1 until the end of the season. The low is 5.5" (2003-04) and the high is 35.1" (1995-96). This year has destroyed the top 10 by more then 11" and so far we only have 1.6" after 2/1. We'll see what the remainder of the snow season brings us. The top 11 list, this year included: Season Pre Feb Post Feb 2010-11 56.1 1.6 1947-48 44.9 18.3 1872-73 41.1 19.2 1904-05 40.5 7.6 1995-96 40.5 35.1 2003-04 37.1 5.5 1960-61 35.3 19.4 1876-77 33.5 6.9 1922-23 33.5 26.9 1883-84 32.8 10.3 1948-49 31.7 14.9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 For those wondering, the top 10 pre-Feb snowfall seasons average 16.41" from Feb 1 until the end of the season. The low is 5.5" (2003-04) and the high is 35.1" (1995-96). This year has destroyed the top 10 by more then 11" and so far we only have 1.6" after 2/1. We'll see what the remainder of the snow season brings us. The top 11 list, this year included: Season Pre Feb Post Feb 2010-11 56.1 1.6 1947-48 44.9 18.3 1872-73 41.1 19.2 1904-05 40.5 7.6 1995-96 40.5 35.1 2003-04 37.1 5.5 1960-61 35.3 19.4 1876-77 33.5 6.9 1922-23 33.5 26.9 1883-84 32.8 10.3 1948-49 31.7 14.9 One thing that really stands out is that only 3/10 had less than 10 inches of snow for the rest of the snow season. (Not going to include this season.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yhbrooklyn Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 One thing that really stands out is that only 3/10 had less than 10 inches of snow for the rest of the snow season. (Not going to include this season.) Yeah, but unfortunately, most of those had pretty good Februarys. March-April snow in those big pre-Feb years is very spotty. For the list above, here is post 2/1 broken down by month. Feb Mar Apr 13.6 4.7 0.0 18.8 0.4 0.0 5.8 1.8 0.0 21.2 13.2 0.7 0.7 4.8 0.0 18.2 1.2 T 0.4 6.5 0.0 18.8 8.1 T 8.0 2.3 0.0 10.7 4.2 0.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle W Posted February 21, 2011 Author Share Posted February 21, 2011 The record for two consecutive years is 109.8" set in 1947-48 and 48-49...kiss that record goodbye as well... seasons...snowfall... 2009-10/2010-11...112.3" 1947-48/1948-49...109.8" 1915-16/1916-17...101.4" 1872-73/1873-74.....97.2" 1959-60/1960-61.....93.9" 2002-03/2003-04.....91.9" 1895-96/1896-97.....89.9" 1921-22/1922-23.....88.2" 1994-95/1995-96.....87.4" 1882-83/1883-84.....87.1" the last two winters become the snowiest two consecutive winters on record... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 21, 2011 Share Posted February 21, 2011 the last two winters become the snowiest two consecutive winters on record... and thats mostly February to February..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isotherm Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I've got 127.5" in the past two winters combined. Remarkable, but I hope we're not done yet. Winter died at the end of JAN in CNJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzucker Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 I've got 127.5" in the past two winters combined. Remarkable, but I hope we're not done yet. Winter died at the end of JAN in CNJ. 134" here in Dobbs Ferry in the past two winters. Really amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbc Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 the last two winters become the snowiest two consecutive winters on record... Unreal. I thought it would be quite some time before we would do better than 02-03 and 03-04 let alone break the all-time record! Simply remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-L-E-X Posted February 22, 2011 Share Posted February 22, 2011 the last two winters become the snowiest two consecutive winters on record... and yet Philly is still ahead of us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJO812 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 2009-2010 = 57.20 inches of snow 2010-2011 so far = 63.45 Total = 120.65 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris L Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 and yet Philly is still ahead of us PHL has 122.7". now that's epic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isotherm Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 PHL has 122.7". now that's epic. I've got Philly by several inches, 127.5". But still remarkable that PHL's beating NYC on the combined 2 winter total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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