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Feb 25-26 Discussion/pbp


Wow

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The Euro clown snow maps are very low resolution and tend to spread or bleed the snow qpf contours outward on every side- so it gives the illusion of more snow down to south of I-20 but looking at the 2M temps and 850 temps they suggest not as much snow further south than what the accumulation maps show- and this also flies in the face of most of the other guidance. Also there is no evidence that the Doc is any better than the more hi-res models at this time frame

 

History would suggest even the RGEM's snow gradient is hogwash in ATL, but I guess there are first times for everything, I dug and dug and dug today and as far as I can tell, what I was told is true, no big snowfall gradient involving a gulf low has ever occurred over Metro ATL, it HAS occurred in the case of a closed upper low, but not in this scenario.  Gulf Lows usually see a gradient setup somewhere between MCN/FFC up through downtown in the case of a farther south track or in the case of a farther north track or stale airmass between RYY and the TN border.  That would lead you to believe the latter occurs tomorrow, if the former occurs, well...then that was some seriously bad model forecasts. 

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History would suggest even the RGEM's snow gradient is hogwash in ATL, but I guess there are first times for everything, I dug and dug and dug today and as far as I can tell, what I was told is true, no big snowfall gradient involving a gulf low has ever occurred over Metro ATL, it HAS occurred in the case of a closed upper low, but not in this scenario.  Gulf Lows usually see a gradient setup somewhere between MCN/FFC up through downtown in the case of a farther south track or in the case of a farther north track or stale airmass between RYY and the TN border.  That would lead you to believe the latter occurs tomorrow, if the former occurs, well...then that was some seriously bad model forecasts. 

Good post. I believe for this case the latter scenario which has occurred many times in the past- a lot of snow from somewhere near Marietta north- little south of there.

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21z SREF Plumes for select areas:

 

AVL: 7.44"

EMV: 6.91"

GSO: 6.60"

MWK: 6.02"

GSP: 5.66"

CLT: 5.34"

ROA: 4.90"

RDU: 4.65"

 

Look up your own plumes here: http://www.spc.noaa.gov/exper/sref/fplumes/

 

Updated 03z SREF plumes:

 

AVL: 7.39"

EMV: 8.35"

GSO: 7.59"

MWK: 5.87"

GSP: 5.22"

CLT: 5.72"

ROA: 4.56"

RDU: 6.63"

HSV: 5.82"
BHM: 1.61"
ATL: 1.01" 
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I have 8.09 as the mean of AVL? Maybe just checked the wrong plume or something. Regardless they're quite skewed due to the ARW family. 

 

No, you're right.  It looks like I didn't count the upslope snowfall after the main event.

 

I'm surprised to see the mean jump to 7.5" here.  Kind of crazy...  I'm thinking 3-6" is a good call here at the moment, in any case.  Maybe 4-8".

 

If you look at GSO's means by SREF family:

 

ARW: 12.99" (max: 14.56", min: 11.67")

NMB: 5.94" (max: 9.47", min: 4.73")

NMM: 4.03" (max: 6.23", min: 2.22")

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No, you're right.  It looks like I didn't count the upslope snowfall after the main event.

 

I'm surprised to see the mean jump to 7.5" here.  Kind of crazy...  I'm thinking 3-6" is a good call here at the moment, in any case.  Maybe 4-8".

 

Yea, it's definitely a good run for around here. Even taking the median instead of the mean to account for some of that ARW skew leaves Asheville with 7.3 inches or so. Definitely clustered in the 6 inch range though.

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Yea, it's definitely a good run for around here. Even taking the median instead of the mean to account for some of that ARW skew leaves Asheville with 7.3 inches or so. Definitely clustered in the 6 inch range though.

 

Indeed.  Even the two "worst" model families show means of 4"+ and 6".  Not bad...

 

Looks like the 06z NAM is about to run, so let's see if we can get NAM'd one more time before hitting the sack for the night.

 

Tomorrow will be the day of radar/satellite/water vapor hallucinations, HRRR/RAP meltdowns, etc.

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The 06z NAM is tracking our surface low further inland into SW GA with h5 heights higher in front of the low.  The LP position is near Albany, GA at hr 21 with CLT getting crushed and heavy precip arriving into GSO and RDU.  N GA is getting crushed, as well.

 

At hr 24, the low is at 1000 mb over SAV.  CLT has gotten crushed, but isn't snow anymore as of this frame and RDU, after getting crushed, is now right in the dividing line, with southern Wake County no longer snow.  Everything is shifted a good 50 miles west.  That being said, with heavy rates, RDU and CLT could maybe stay snow (haven't looked at soundings to see how warm the warm nose is).

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The 06z NAM is tracking our surface low further inland into SW GA with h5 heights higher in front of the low. The LP position is near Albany, GA at hr 21 with CLT getting crushed and heavy precip arriving into GSO and RDU. N GA is getting crushed, as well.

I imagine the upstate looks good too if those areas do.

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06z NAM isn't much different track wise, but takes heaviest batch of moisture over land in the Carolina's. Widespread 1.25-1.5" QPF Through hour 30
---
NAM is known for being too wet, but the fact that this run actually got wetter is intriguing. Verbatim, mixing would likely reach RDU&CLT... but just to the N and W is most/all snow with amounts locally up to and over a foot. post-9825-0-46330600-1424852262_thumb.pn

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You know, looking at RDU's and CLT's Skew-Ts on the NAM, they really might be able to stay all-snow, though.  It's really, really close and rates are intense.  Might go isothermal and get heavy paste.  Of course, ratios would probably suck and those maps us 10:1 ratios, so they would be overdone.

 

GSO is comfortably a snow sounding throughout.

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GSP is presumably snow throughout.  CLT and RDU get some serious precip, but they do mix in all likelihood.

 

999 mb LP just offshore of Emerald Isle at hr 27...

 

996 mb LP ~100 mile offshore of Hatteras at hr 30...

 

Loving this track! The low comes from deep in the western gom and ends up off Hatteras. Track of the big dog. Although the pressure isn't so deep, it should be deep enough. Wow! Here it is at hr 15 near the mouth of the Mississippi.

 

nam_T850_seus_6.png

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Latest From GSP:

 

.NEAR TERM /THROUGH TONIGHT/...
AS OF 330 AM EST WEDNESDAY...SIGNIFICANT WINTER STORM STILL ON TRACK
TO OVERTAKE THE REGION WEDNESDAY AFTERNOON/NIGHT. DEVELOPING
SURFACE CYCLONE AIDED BY EASTWARD ADVECTING POTENT UPPER SHORT WAVE
IS GAINING STEAM ACROSS SOUTH TEXAS INTO THE WESTERN GULF THIS
MORNING. THIS SURFACE WAVE IS STILL PROGGED TO SLIDE ALONG THE GULF
COAST CROSSING NORTH FL...SOUTHERN GA/SC THIS EVENING. MODELS STILL
TRANSLATE AMPLE QPF RESPONSE ATOP THE REGION BY WAY OF ENHANCED
UPGLIDE AIDED BY COUPLED JET ALOFT PROVIDING NICE UPPER SUPPORT.
LIKEWISE...LATEST NAM12 ANALYSIS INDICATES AMPLE H7 FRONTOGENESIS
ALONG THE NORTHERN FLANK OF THE SYSTEM AS IT SLIDES BY TO THE SOUTH
AROUND THE 21Z-03Z TIMEFRAME. GIVEN ALL THE ABOVE...WOULD NOT BE
SURPRISED TO SEE IMPRESSIVE MESOSCALE BANDING OF SNOWFALL WITH THIS
SYSTEM. HIGH PRESSURE TO THE NORTH WILL BE ON THE MOVE WITH MODEST
SURFACE COLD ADVECTION ASSOCIATED WITH IT. THE PRIMARY FCST
CHALLENGE WITH THIS SYSTEM IS WHERE/WHEN WILL THE RASN/SN LINE SETUP
THIS EVENING...AND HOW DOES THAT LINE UP WITH FCST QPF.

FCST FEATURES INCREASING POPS FROM THE SOUTHWEST JUST BEFORE NOON
WITH THERMAL PROFILES SUPPORTING ALL RAIN. FURTHER INTO THE
AFTERNOON POPS SPREAD NORTH OVER THE SOUTHWEST NC MOUNTAINS...ALL OF
NORTHEAST GA AND THE WESTERN HALF OF THE SC UPSTATE...BEFORE
OVERTAKING THE NC PIEDMONT BY EARLY EVENING. AS PRECIP SLIDES
IN...EXPECTING WETBULB EFFECTS TO ASSIST IN COOLING OF TEMPS THROUGH
THE LOW LEVELS...ALONG WITH GOOD DYNAMIC COOLING DUE TO THE INTENSE
UPWARD MOTION BENEATH ABOVE MENTIONED COUPLED UPPER JET MAXIMA.
THUS...EXPECTING RAIN TO CHANGE OVER TO SNOW ALONG OR JUST SOUTH OF
I85 AROUND THE 6PM TIMEFRAME ACROSS GA/SC...THEN AN HOUR OR SO LATER
OVER NC. IT IS ALSO AT THIS TIME WHEN IT IS FCST THAT MESOSCALE
BANDING COULD OCCUR YIELDING POSSIBLE SNOWFALL RATES ON THE ORDER OF
1-2 INCHES PER HOUR. ITS NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE TO DETERMINE EXACTLY
WHERE THIS WILL OCCUR...AS WITH THE RAIN/SNOW LINE...BUT IT LOOKS
THAT THE I85 CORRIDOR IS LIKELY TO BE THE MOST FAVORABLE LOCATION.
AS ALWAYS...DUE TO THE UNCERTAINTY OF ALL THESE FEATURES
ALIGNING...SNOW TOTALS COULD BE GREATLY AFFECTED OVER A SMALL...SAY
30M AREA. AS FOR SNOW TOTALS...BLENDED IN HPC QPF WITH A TOUCH OF
SREF AND ENDING UP WITH THE HEAVIEST AMOUNTS...IN THE 6-8 INCH RANGE
ALONG AND JUST NORTH OF I85...WITH AMOUNTS TAPERING A BIT FURTHER
NORTH DUE TO PROXIMITY FROM QPF MAXIMA. SOUTH OF I85 EXPECTING THE
MIXED PTYPE TO POSSIBLY AFFECT SNOW TOTALS SIGNIFICANTLY...WHERE
GENERALLY 3-5 INCHES IS FCST. SNOW WILL CONTINUE THROUGH THE
OVERNIGHT WITH INTENSITY BACKING OFF AS PRIMARY UPPER FORCING EXITS
EAST. THUS...POPS REMAIN IN THE LIKELY RANGE UP UNTIL DAYBREAK
THURSDAY WHERE THEY TAPER FROM THE WEST TO CHANCE LEVELS WHERE
POSSIBLE DEFORMATION ZONE COULD ALLOW FOR FURTHER CONTINUATION OF
SNOWFALL.

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