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Post-Super Bowl Storm chance discussion


rossi

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when was the last night you saw a snowfall distribution map that looked like that. Stuff that comes in due west through PA has a tendency to dry out once it downslopes over the mountains....

 

Somewhat rare but it does happen, usually in southwest flow events or overrunning storms, this is not a true SWFE really,  Generally your track is more north or south of this, thats a somewhat unusual track we have on the models now.

 

So no one is worried this might end up as a bunch of slop for NYC? The storm has jumped north 200 miles since yesterday. DC and possibly Philly is out of the game at this point and we may not be done trending. Of course, the north trend may be overdone too so today's runs will be crucial

 

I'm not sure it can get much further north, I sort of agree with the HPC discussion that it may drop south slightly, the fast moving nature to the pattern and the fact an elongated PV is up there in Canada makes it hard to get much further north than this.

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Somewhat rare but it does happen, usually in southwest flow events or overrunning storms, this is not a true SWFE really,  Generally your track is more north or south of this, thats a somewhat unusual track we have on the models now.

 

 

I'm not sure it can get much further north, I sort of agree with the HPC discussion that it may drop south slightly, the fast moving nature to the pattern and the fact an elongated PV is up there in Canada makes it hard to get much further north than this.

6z GEFS are colder than the OP . With these mid levels expect to go 10 to 1. We have warmed since yesterday and the soundings are not as favorable for snow growth. In its place is more precip so this tends to even out.

850s still minus 4 and that should get it done .

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...MID-LEVEL HEIGHT FALLS REACHING THE NORTHERN PLAINS BY

01/1200Z...

...SURFACE LOW CROSSING THE MID-ATLANTIC LATE IN THE PERIOD...

FINAL PREFERENCE: BLEND OF THE 00Z GFS/ECMWF

FORECAST CONFIDENCE: BELOW AVERAGE

A BAND OF HEIGHT FALLS DIPPING DOWN INTO THE NORTHERN/CENTRAL

PLAINS ON SUNDAY MORNING WILL PLAY A KEY ROLE IN THE FORECAST

GIVEN THE THREAT FOR WINTRY PRECIPITATION FROM THE CENTER OF THE

CONUS EASTWARD TO THE MID-ATLANTIC. AS WAS THE CASE

YESTERDAY...THE QUICKER AND MORE AMPLIFIED 00Z/12Z UKMET SUPPORT

SURFACE LOW DEVELOPMENT THAT IS MORE DEFINED AND NORTH OF THE

MODEL ENVELOPE. THIS RESULTS IN A NORTHWARD DISPLACED

PRECIPITATION AXIS ON DAY 2. AS TIME MOVES FORWARD...TIMING

DIFFERENCES PREVAIL WITH THE 00Z UKMET CONTINUING TO BE QUICKER

RESULTING IN THE SURFACE WAVE BEING OFFSHORE OF SOUTHERN NEW

ENGLAND BY 02/1200Z. MEANWHILE...THE 00Z NAM/CMC BEING SLOWER

RESULT IN TIMING ISSUES. THE MODELS DO CONTINUE TO WAFFLE AS

EVIDENT BY THE 00Z GFS WHICH SHIFTED ITS LOW TRACK BY A COUPLE

HUNDRED MILES ON MONDAY MORNING. HOWEVER...THE 00Z ECMWF DID

FOLLOW THIS MOVE NORTHWARD WHICH COULD BE THE LATEST TREND TO AT

LEAST CONSIDER. A SNEAKING SUSPICION SAYS THE 12Z GUIDANCE WILL

COME BACK SOUTH BUT FEEL THE FORECAST AT LEAST SHOULD CONSIDER

WHAT THE 00Z GFS/ECMWF DEPICT. WILL PRESENT A BLEND OF THE 00Z

GFS/ECMWF BUT MAINTAINING THE AFOREMENTIONED BELOW AVERAGE

CONFIDENCE.

 

 

http://www.hpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/hpcdiscussions.php?disc=pmdhmd

I hope they come further south at 12Z - NAM & GFS put us on the southern fringe now after being on the northern fringe yesterday AM.. that's the NYC area though - always need the perfect track. my thoughts, they tick slightly north or remain the same. I think the models may have been overestimating the cold air in the long-range and mishandling the pV placement.

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when was the last night you saw a snowfall distribution map that looked like that. Stuff that comes in due west through PA has a tendency to dry out once it downslopes over the mountains....

 

When the low tracks NE from the Texas Panhandle we usually don't have to worry about drying out since

Gulf moisture is tapped. The only West to east snow map with a low tacking that track was February 2007.  

this storm is being modeled as a colder version of that since the PV isn't dropping into GL like 07 and forcing

heights too far north for ice here. But a colder  version of 07 being modeled would have a stipe

of snow from Indiana across PA to the coast like is being forecast . Both Februaries were weakening

El Ninos with a moist STJ.

 

Models showing  further south and colder version of 2007

 

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When the low tracks NE from the Texas Panhandle we usually don't have to worry about drying out since

Gulf moisture is tapped. The only West to east snow map with a low tacking that track was February 2007.

this storm is being modeled as a colder version of that since the PV isn't dropping into GL like 07 and forcing

heights too far north for ice here. But a colder version of 07 being modeled would have a stipe

of snow from Indiana across PA to the coast like is being forecast . Both Februaries were weakening

El Ninos with a moist STJ.

Models showing further south and colder version of 2007

20070212-20070215-5.63.jpg

2/8/94 may have had a similar area of snow but that was totally overrunning induced with no surface low.

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2/8/94 may have had a similar area of snow but that was totally overrunning induced with no surface low.

 

Yeah, this could help our friends in the northern and western areas since they will be closer to the true

Arctic air. They could see the same totals as closer to us with less precip since the ratios will be higher

if this track verifies.

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I think the mix line gets very close to the South shore of LI, coastal NNJ and NYC. PDII was one of the coldest setups that we've ever had and even that had some mixing at times in the coastal plain. It's almost impossible when you have that initial push of WAA before whatever secondary takes over. That's if the miller B idea is correct If you have one surface low that tracks south of the area then it should be all snow and a lot of it.

 

While the 00z EPS members were still very split between the two ideas, the lean was towards a 00z OP solution.

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