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Thanksgiving Eve SECS/MECS Discussion II


gkrangers

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Given the importance of dynamics with this system, I think that the GFS is about out of its range on this one. The mesoscale models should be taking the lead with this now. I would put a lot of stock into the 0z EURO run tonight, and then after that its the RGEM, NAM, and eventually HRRR and RAP. It's a good sign to see the NAM and RGEM in such great agreement. Things are definitely getting more interesting for areas closer to the coast. 

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Different setup this time, but I was looking back at the forums for the mid February storm (specifically in the Hudson Valley) and at a time when the Euro and most of the mesos were suggesting 1-2 feet of snow, the GFS had as little as 3-6". Most of us remember how that turned out.

 

There were so many snow events last February I don't know which one you mean...I do know that in one of them, snowdrifts reaches the eaves in the lucky spots. 

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NAM w/the Kuchera snow accum method....

 

 

 

Contact: Evan Kuchera
0.5 degree isobaric GFS GRIB data from NCEP.
The snowfall accumulation algorithm used on these charts is as follows:
1) Find the maximum temperature in the lowest 500 hPa in degrees K (MAXTMP)
2) If MAXTMP is greater than 271.16K, then the liquid equivalent ratio (RATIO) is 12.0 + 2.0*(271.16-MAXTMP)
3) If MAXTMP is less than 271.16K, then the liquid equivalent ratio (RATIO) is 12.0 + (271.16-MAXTMP)
The 3-hourly snowfall (SNOW) is RATIO multiplied by the three hour liquid precipitation total. The accumulated snowfall (ACCUM_SNOW) is the sum of all the SNOW values up to that projection time.

 

ScreenHunter_96Nov242256.png

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The gfs failed miserably for the 2/13-14 storm

 

So, in other words you agree with me? <Rhetorical question>

 

Even the February before...2013...it had one foot totals over the Island & SNE...and some spots ultimately saw more than a yard. 

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Looks very much like a climo map with few anomalies.

I think it's a real nail biter for our areas-if it's snowing away by 10-11am and temps are crashing, it might be a significant event even for the coast. The more northerly winds shown on the modeling will help with the temps. But we can see on soundings how the Sound might still hurt.
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It's so early for the coast. And yes even the sound is a factor. Especially if we remain in marginal rates.

Hoping miller A juice brings the wall of precip we need.

On another note my flight attendant mother has a flight into JFK at 530 pm Wednesday. At this point she isn't worried as she knows my excitement level all to well. Would suck for her to miss thanksgiving so i am not so sure I want that 12" plus death possibility after all

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I think it's a real nail biter for our areas-if it's snowing away by 10-11am and temps are crashing, it might be a significant event even for the coast. The more northerly winds shown on the modeling will help with the temps. But we can see on soundings how the Sound might still hurt.

 

Long Beach has its moments in the sun...that December 2000 storm was a good deal better near you...per the Oceanside co-op record (15 inches, IIRC)....and that second storm in December 2002...near the end of the month...was lousy out here with only around 4 inches or so as the darn air aloft just would not cool...until it was too late. 

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Long Beach has its moments in the sun...that December 2000 storm was a good deal better near you...per the Oceanside co-op record (15 inches, IIRC)....and that second storm in December 2002...near the end of the month...was lousy out here with only around 4 inches or so as the darn air aloft just would not cool...until it was too late.

Believe it or not the Nov 7, 2012 event was good here too, we were largely still evacuated post Sandy but from what people were saying, there was pretty much just as much snow on the beach as inland. And we have occasions where we can make it work- a strong northerly fetch might do it. It'll really be about now casting for much of the city and easy. I'll feel a lot better if a yellow wall comes at us on Wed morning rather than spotty/scattered crap.
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It's so early for the coast. And yes even the sound is a factor. Especially if we remain in marginal rates.

Hoping miller A juice brings the wall of precip we need.

On another note my flight attendant mother has a flight into JFK at 530 pm Wednesday. At this point she isn't worried as she knows my excitement level all to well. Would suck for her to miss thanksgiving so i am not so sure I want that 12" plus death possibility after all

A due north or just NNE wind would be optimal as that flow is over minimal water from the Sound. That plus heavy precip could do the trick. But it will be a tightrope for sure. And further east into Suffolk will be tough regardless-the NAM soundings keep it toaster the further east you go.
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I wonder if there's a chance for any sound effect enhancement snow.

 

I remember making a satirical post during the October 2011 storm along the lines of "With a delta of 20 C, where's my Sound Effect?"

 

You might actually get some here...or Sound Effect rain. 

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Where are you out of? Are you a cool girl or a rich girl? (Billy Joel said it best)

 

 

All such inquiries must be submitted via fax...

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A due north or just NNE wind would be optimal as that flow is over minimal water from the Sound. That plus heavy precip could do the trick. But it will be a tightrope for sure. And further east into Suffolk will be tough regardless-the NAM soundings keep it toaster the further east you go.

We had 8" here in wantagh and I would say within an inch in lb having gone down there allot after Sandy. There was a good amount more places like garden city were my budy had way more tree damage from the snow then sandy something like a foot there.

Obviously it can and did happen. And if this is a sign of things to come we are in for a fantastic fun winter. Taking my 3" prediction here to the bank but leaving 0-12" open

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Upton changed its hwo at 8pm roughly, now includes all of Suffolk....

Hazardous Weather Outlook

HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW YORK NY

737 PM EST MON NOV 24 2014

CTZ009>012-NJZ006-104-106>108-NYZ071>075-078>081-176>179-252300-

SOUTHERN FAIRFIELD-SOUTHERN NEW HAVEN-SOUTHERN MIDDLESEX-

SOUTHERN NEW LONDON-HUDSON-EASTERN BERGEN-EASTERN ESSEX-

WESTERN UNION-EASTERN UNION-SOUTHERN WESTCHESTER-

NEW YORK (MANHATTAN)-BRONX-RICHMOND (STATEN ISLAND)-KINGS (BROOKLYN)-

NORTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-NORTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-SOUTHWESTERN SUFFOLK-

SOUTHEASTERN SUFFOLK-NORTHERN QUEENS-NORTHERN NASSAU-SOUTHERN QUEENS-

SOUTHERN NASSAU-

737 PM EST MON NOV 24 2014

THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK IS FOR SOUTHERN

CONNECTICUT...NORTHEAST NEW JERSEY AND SOUTHEAST NEW YORK.

.DAY ONE...TONIGHT.

HAZARDOUS WEATHER IS NOT EXPECTED AT THIS TIME.

.DAYS TWO THROUGH SEVEN...TUESDAY THROUGH SUNDAY.

A COASTAL STORM IS EXPECTED TO IMPACT THE REGION WEDNESDAY INTO

WEDNESDAY NIGHT...BUT UNCERTAINTY STILL EXISTS IN HOW CLOSE TO THE

REGION THIS STORM WILL TRACK. A COMBINATION OF SNOW...RAIN...AND

WIND ARE LIKELY WITH THIS SYSTEM.

ALTHOUGH IT IS TOO EARLY TO DETERMINE EXACT SNOW AND RAIN

AMOUNTS...THERE IS A LOW PROBABILITY OF 6 OR MORE INCHES OF SNOW

WITH THIS SYSTEM. CONTINUE TO MONITOR NWS FORECASTS FOR THE

LATEST ON POTENTIAL STORM RELATED HAZARDS AND IMPACTS DURING THE

BUSY MIDWEEK HOLIDAY TRAVEL PERIOD.

.SPOTTER INFORMATION STATEMENT...

SPOTTER ACTIVATION IS NOT EXPECTED AT THIS TIME.

&&

THIS HAZARDOUS WEATHER OUTLOOK PROVIDES A SUMMARY OF POTENTIAL

WIDESPREAD HAZARDOUS WEATHER EVENTS THAT MAY REACH NWS WARNING

CRITERIA. MOST LONG FUSED NWS WATCHES...WARNINGS AND ADVISORIES IN

EFFECT ARE HIGHLIGHTED.

PLEASE REFER TO THE LATEST NWS FORECASTS FOR WEATHER NOT MEETING NWS

WARNING CRITERIA.

$$

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Where are you out of? Are you a cool girl or a rich girl? (Billy Joel said it best)

I'm going to go with neither. Once east of port Jeff there isn't much of a south shore north shore thing it's really a Nassau construct.

Port Jeff station over to stony Brook can be a great snow spot with good topography and potential for sound enhancement. I don't expect them to disappoint here.

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The models continue to be terrible on the boundary layer though, both GFS and nam mos 00z runs are 41/30 or 40/32 at LGA at 12z, that's pretty horrific even if you have heavy precip rates, you'd rather see 37/25 or something like that, this is going to be a nail biter

There really isn't any good cold coming behind this front, the airmass looks to be pretty stale. I think we know by noon if this can be a real snow event near the coast or if it's a big disappointment. The NAM Mos seems to be encouraging out to at least Nassau to get the temp down to 33-34 when the heavy precip arrives.
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I'm going to go with neither. Once east of port Jeff there isn't much of a south shore north shore thing it's really a Nassau construct.

Port Jeff station over to stony Brook can be a great snow spot with good topography and potential for sound enhancement. I don't expect them to disappoint here.

 

I recently relocated...I now reside somewhere over the rainbow....

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There really isn't any good cold coming behind this front, the airmass looks to be pretty stale. I think we know by noon if this can be a real snow event near the coast or if it's a big disappointment. The NAM Mos seems to be encouraging out to at least Nassau to get the temp down to 33-34 when the heavy precip arrives.

This is very much like that January 08 event or even March 1999, very bad air mass, one event had the dynamics to get it over to snow and the other did not

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