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Oct.-Nov Pattern Discussion


jaxjagman

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Good post. We still live in the South!

Can't help but think this is going to be rain for the valley areas south of 40. Maybe a bit of snow at the tail end. Need to see cold HP just a little further south to keep warm air from getting trapped in the valley.

 

I like the Upper Plateau and definitely the Apps. With a cold front plowing through, and associated CAA, it is hard to see quality snow at lower elevations. Too warm ahead of the wave. EDIT: Second wave won't have moisture.

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Good post. We still live in the South!

 

I like the Upper Plateau and definitely the Apps. With a cold front plowing through, and associated CAA, it is hard to see quality snow at lower elevations. Too warm ahead of the wave.

But the models are showing two waves?Correct me if i'm wrong with colder air behind the first wave?

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Unless models drastically change I don't think E TN will have a good chance of snow in the valleys beyond a few flakes within the next 10 days. The next decent storm looks more and more like it'll follow a line just south or just north of the Ohio river.

 

Then after that, a brief warmup looks inevitable.

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Things could change, but snow in the valley seems unlikely at this point:

 

THEN LATE SUNDAY NIGHT AND INTO MONDAY...THE NEXT BOUT OF ARCTIC AIR
ARRIVES AS ANOTHER COLD FRONT PUSHES INTO THE AREA. THIS WILL LIKELY
RESULT IN MORNING HIGH TEMPS AS COLD AIR POURS IN THROUGH THE DAY.
AS EVERYONE KNOWS...THINGS CAN CHANGE BUT SNOW POTENTIAL IS LOOKING
LESS LIKELY...IN TERMS OF ACCUMULATION ACROSS THE LOWER ELEVATIONS.
DUE TO THE TROUGH SLOWING DOWN...IT WILL TAKE LONGER FOR THE COLD
AIR TO MOVE INTO OUR AREA. SO AS OF NOW IT LOOKS LIKE LATE SUNDAY
NIGHT INTO EARLY MONDAY MORNING AREAS ALONG THE PLATEAU AND NORTH OF
KNOXVILLE COULD CHANGE OVER TO SNOW FOR A BRIEF TIME. THEN...SNOW
QUICKLY CHANGES BACK OVER TO RAIN LATER MONDAY MORNING AS THE COLDER
AIR DOESN`T GET IN UNTIL LATER IN THE AFTERNOON AND EVENING. RAIN
BACK TO SNOW MONDAY EVENING AND OVERNIGHT...BUT BY THIS TIME MOST OF
THE MOISTURE IS OFF TO OUR EAST THUS THE LESS LIKELY CHANCES FOR ANY
ACCUMULATIONS. MONDAY EVENING INTO TUESDAY MORNING IS WHEN ALL AREAS
COULD SEE SNOW SOME LIGHT SNOW SHOWERS...WITH LITTLE TO NO
ACCUMULATION EXPECTED EXCEPT FOR THE HIGHER TERRAIN. TUESDAY AND
BEYOND LOOKS COLD AND DRY.

 

Still, we'll have plenty of cold air.

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Looks like Thanksgiving week on the 12z Euro is going to featuer +NAO, zonal flow across the lower 48, and generally above normal temps. I remember Hurricane Sandy...and how we thought that it was the beginning of a great winter. I sometimes think that when the pattern brings heavy snow to the mtns in November, that it is a harbinger of a less than snowy winter. However, it does look like the beginning of December will be generally warm. Honestly, it seems this cold snap is not a "flip" in the pattern, but is more like an intrusion of cold air during the warm pattern of fall. Like I said, I will believe it when I see it...Not trying to be negative. The long term just doesn't look cold to me.

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Looks like Thanksgiving week on the 12z Euro is going to featuer +NAO, zonal flow across the lower 48, and generally above normal temps to above normal temps.  I remember Hurricane Sandy...and how we thought that it was the beginning of a great winter.  I sometimes think that when the pattern brings heavy snow to the mtns in November, that it is a harbinger of a less than snowy winter.  However, it does look like the beginning of December will be generally warm.  Honestly, it seems this cold snap is not a "flip" in the pattern, but is more like an intrusion of cold air during the warm pattern of fall.  Like I said, I will believe it when I see it...Not trying to be negative.  The long term just doesn't look cold to me.

I know it's long range but that storm a couple days before turkey day,100 kt wind shear coming through the Valley,looks like a beast

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Looks like Thanksgiving week on the 12z Euro is going to featuer +NAO, zonal flow across the lower 48, and generally above normal temps. I remember Hurricane Sandy...and how we thought that it was the beginning of a great winter. I sometimes think that when the pattern brings heavy snow to the mtns in November, that it is a harbinger of a less than snowy winter. However, it does look like the beginning of December will be generally warm. Honestly, it seems this cold snap is not a "flip" in the pattern, but is more like an intrusion of cold air during the warm pattern of fall. Like I said, I will believe it when I see it...Not trying to be negative. The long term just doesn't look cold to me.

What more do you want ?? Possible record cold next Monday and Tuesday? It's mid November . I don't feel like anyone expects a cold stable pattern to lock in the early.......

You don't consider a -AO that's in the tank an east based -NAO and a cross polar flow for two weeks a cold pattern , but an intrusion??? Ok........

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What more do you want ?? Possible record cold next Monday and Tuesday? It's mid November . I don't feel like anyone expects a cold stable pattern to lock in the early.......

You don't consider a -AO that's in the tank an east based -NAO and a cross polar flow for two weeks a cold pattern , but an intrusion??? Ok........

Snow.

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What more do you want ?? Possible record cold next Monday and Tuesday? It's mid November . I don't feel like anyone expects a cold stable pattern to lock in the early.......

You don't consider a -AO that's in the tank an east based -NAO and a cross polar flow for two weeks a cold pattern , but an intrusion??? Ok........

Talking long term...not short term. I think the hype with this cold is a bit overblown. Flurries and cold in November are not rare here. Again, long term looks zonal and warm - above average. Easy, chief.

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.CLIMATE...
THE FORECAST HIGH TEMPERATURE AT NASHVILLE FOR NEXT TUESDAY IS 32
DEGREES...WHICH IS ALMOST 30 DEGREES BELOW NORMAL. ALTHOUGH IT IS
NOT UNCOMMON TO SEE A HIGH TEMPERATURE IN THE 30S AT NASHVILLE
DURING THE MONTH OF NOVEMBER...IT USUALLY ENDS UP BEING IN THE
MIDDLE TO UPPER 30S. A HIGH TEMPERATURE THAT FAILS TO GET ABOVE
FREEZING IN NOVEMBER, ON THE OTHER HAND, IS INDEED RARE. THE LAST
TIME SUCH A THING OCCURRED AT NASHVILLE WAS BACK ON NOVEMBER 26,
1977...WHEN THE HIGH AT NASHVILLE WAS 29 DEGREES. THE YEAR BEFORE
THAT, ON NOVEMBER 29, 1976...THE HIGH WAS ONLY 26. THE MOST RECENT
NOVEMBER THAT HAD A SIMILARLY COLD TEMPERATURE TO WHAT IS FORECAST
FOR NEXT TUESDAYS WAS BACK IN 2000, WHEN THE HIGH TEMPERATURE ON THE
SAME DATE, NOVEMBER 18TH, WAS 34 DEGREES.

 

http://forecast.weather.gov/product.php?site=OHX&issuedby=OHX&product=AFD&format=CI&version=2&glossary=1

 

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Talking long term...not short term. I think the hype with this cold is a bit overblown. Flurries and cold in November are not rare here. Again, long term looks zonal and warm - above average. Easy, chief.

Well said....The Euro weeklies back up some normal to above into early December but then this is not necessarily unusual for El Nino winters. Decembers can be above before Jan Feb declines. My supposition this winter is that we will have periods like this where the SER brings some warmer temps as has been the case since late summer...but as with this week, there will be decent shots of cold air this winter...on the balance near normal or slightly above...

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Median and Mode may be slight above. Days like today could drive the Mean slight below. I consider myself with the bears Carver and Bob but I lean slightly cooler than normal. Still, like them, I'm a skeptic on another brutal winter. In the South being bearish is usually rewarded.

 

Bottom line: Valleys have a better chance of strong thunderstorms than accumulating 1"+ snow Thanksgiving week through the 11-15 day. :underthewx:

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Median and Mode may be slight above. Days like today could drive the Mean slight below. I consider myself with the bears Carver and Bob but I lean slightly cooler than normal. Still, like them, I'm a skeptic on another brutal winter. In the South being bearish is usually rewarded.

 

Bottom line: Valleys have a better chance of strong thunderstorms than accumulating 1"+ snow Thanksgiving week through the 11-15 day. :underthewx:

Yeah,it's looking rather moist towards t-giving thus far

 

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Talking long term...not short term. I think the hype with this cold is a bit overblown. Flurries and cold in November are not rare here. Again, long term looks zonal and warm - above average. Easy, chief.

Record cold in November ( next week) is rare and obviously we are gonna have a period of warmth , it's the southeast not Canada
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Well said....The Euro weeklies back up some normal to above into early December but then this is not necessarily unusual for El Nino winters. Decembers can be above before Jan Feb declines. My supposition this winter is that we will have periods like this where the SER brings some warmer temps as has been the case since late summer...but as with this week, there will be decent shots of cold air this winter...on the balance near normal or slightly above...

The same weeklies that completely missed the cold for the first part of November?

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The same weeklies that completely missed the cold for the first part of November?

Models are wrong! How about some more reasoning rather than just one liners? Euro ens have a strong Pac jet driving into the west coast in the 11-15 day period.....you are not going to get any cold air into the lower 48 until that pattern switches up so perhaps the weeklies have some logic behind them right now....not to mention that would be more following the ENSO climo going into December..I am inclined to give them some credence...how about you?

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Models are wrong! How about some more reasoning rather than just one liners? Euro ens have a strong Pac jet driving into the west coast in the 11-15 day period.....you are not going to get any cold air into the lower 48 until that pattern switches up so perhaps the weeklies have some logic behind them right now....not to mention that would be more following the ENSO climo going into December..I am inclined to give them some credence...how about you?

 

Seriously every wx board I've visited has had this cold addicts vs. warm argument with the cold followers throwing out the weeklies seemingly only because they don't show cold.

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Models are wrong! How about some more reasoning rather than just one liners? Euro ens have a strong Pac jet driving into the west coast in the 11-15 day period.....you are not going to get any cold air into the lower 48 until that pattern switches up so perhaps the weeklies have some logic behind them right now....not to mention that would be more following the ENSO climo going into December..I am inclined to give them some credence...how about you?

 

Sir, thats all the reasoning I need. 

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