Southern Ontario Weather Discussion

[OntarioWX]

Awesome storm. Really hard to tell but I'm estimating a rough 17-20cm here in Hamilton. Will wait for the official measurement to be sure. Took some pics.

Incredibly stupid of EC to not have issued at least Snowfall Warnings. Virtually every model (except perhaps the RGEM) showed a minimum 15cm in the GTA. There was no reason for them to NOT issue warnings. Most of the public was caught vastly off-guard with this storm. One of EC's responsibilities is to protect people's lives by adequately informing us when dangerous weather is coming, but their gross incompetency has led me to lose almost all trust in their abilities. Some serious discussion needs to happen, but it won't.

 

 

 

 

 

[Ottawa Blizzard]

I measured between 15-17cm.

[blizzardof96]

The HRRR has us dropping AOB the 0f mark tonight. Already at -11c with winds straight from the north. Could come close to that -22c record as winds have dropped off a lot.

[BuffaloWeather]

Totals well over a foot and counting, KBUF reporting conditions

 

12    18:54    N 20 G 26    0.25    Heavy Snow Blowing Snow    
12    17:54    N 16 G 30    0.25    Heavy Snow Blowing Snow    
12    14:54    NE 23 G 33    0.25    Heavy Snow Blowing Snow and Breezy        
12    13:54    NE 23 G 38    0.06    Heavy Snow Blowing Snow and Breezy        
12    12:54    NE 20 G 33    0.13    Heavy Snow Blowing Snow            
12    11:54    NE 25 G 33    0.50    Snow Blowing Snow and Breezy            
12    10:54    NE 20 G 31    0.25    Heavy Snow Blowing Snow        
12    09:54    NE 22 G 31    0.13    Heavy Snow Blowing Snow and Breezy            
12    08:54    NE 24 G 32    0.25    Heavy Snow Freezing Fog and Breezy

[on_wx]

KLOCATION                     EVENT DESCRIPTION

WINDSOR                      17 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

RIDGETOWN                    19 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW (ESTIMATED)

KITCHENER                    16 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW (ESTIMATED)

MISSISSAUGA                  19 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

THOROLD                      27 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

GRIMSBY                      22 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

HAMILTON MOUNTAIN            22 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

THE TORONTO REGION           15 TO 18 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

TORONTO PEARSON AIRPORT      10 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

MISSISSAUGA                  19 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

[dmc76]

KLOCATION                     EVENT DESCRIPTION

WINDSOR                      17 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

RIDGETOWN                    19 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW (ESTIMATED)

KITCHENER                    16 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW (ESTIMATED)

MISSISSAUGA                  19 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

THOROLD                      27 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

GRIMSBY                      22 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

HAMILTON MOUNTAIN            22 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

THE TORONTO REGION           15 TO 18 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

TORONTO PEARSON AIRPORT      10 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

MISSISSAUGA                  19 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

 

LMFAO

[Snowstorms]

LMFAO

Another reason why EC is a joke. Allow me to introduce you to the Great Nipher. Never fails to make an accurate measurement.

[harrisale]

LOCATION                     EVENT DESCRIPTION

WINDSOR                      17 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW
RIDGETOWN                    19 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW (ESTIMATED)
KITCHENER                    16 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW (ESTIMATED)
MISSISSAUGA                  19 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW
THOROLD                      27 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW
GRIMSBY                      22 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW
HAMILTON MOUNTAIN            22 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW
THE TORONTO REGION           15 TO 18 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW
TORONTO PEARSON AIRPORT      10 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW
MISSISSAUGA                  19 CENTIMETRES OF SNOW

 

 

Sent in my 23cm measurement to EC. I guess it didn't make the cut. Either I've made a bad measurement or it just didn't jive with what they wanted to publish... hmm.

[on_wx]

Sent in my 23cm measurement to EC. I guess it didn't make the cut. Either I've made a bad measurement or it just didn't jive with what they wanted to publish... hmm.

Probably will be on the next summary update the Waterloo report isn't on there yet either

[harrisale]

Probably will be on the next summary update the Waterloo report isn't on there yet either

 

You're probably right, I'm just being all tin-foil hat today after today's lack of warnings.

[on_wx]

You're probably right, I'm just being all tin-foil hat today after today's lack of warnings.

New update not there again. Maybe you're right from what folks were saying on here to what EC is reporting. ..

[snowstormcanuck]

Another reason why EC is a joke. Allow me to introduce you to the Great Nipher. Never fails to make an accurate measurement.

 

Not that it's necessarily significant but my dad said that away from the areas where snow obviously blew off from the roof, he thought only about 5" fell.

[Torchageddon]

What is wrong with that place how can the locales except such inept forecasting?

I've been wondering this for years.

 

Dear God @ the band between Goderich and London right now... wow

I saw that, there were some yellow pixels on the EC sites radar showing up so heavy snow for a period down there. That most certainly was not forecast and I bet they exceeded totals. It looked enhanced but the lake is frozen pretty good.

 

twitter could be such a useful tool for reporting wx observations in storms like this but as it is 95% of the tweets are pure garbage.

Agreed. Its either the same, non-detailed report one after another or what you said about "When will winter end?" type banter. The evening news is unbearable at this point to watch, the whole dang newscast was full of "We've had a long, bad winter" and "If your tired of this winter...". Then the worst part is all the repeats of the cliche "Good News" or "Improvement" referring to the weather...starting to get under my skin more and more each day  .

 

This is my fav. Canadian radar to use.

I use to dislike EC radar format until recently. I thought it was pixelated and hard to analyze what was going on because there was a method called the CAP5000 or something (maybe Cappi?) that made it look unbodied. Now I like it for LES and winter storms. Its possible something changed or I did  .

[Toronto4]

I'd say 16-18 cm fell downtown. The top 2/3rds of the snow was easy to shovel as it was high-ratio fluff, but man, the bottom third was tough to shovel as it was wet and heavy.

[Ottawa Blizzard]

I've been wondering this for years.

 

I saw that, there were some yellow pixels on the EC sites radar showing up so heavy snow for a period down there. That most certainly was not forecast and I bet they exceeded totals. It looked enhanced but the lake is frozen pretty good.

 

Agreed. Its either the same, non-detailed report one after another or what you said about "When will winter end?" type banter. The evening news is unbearable at this point to watch, the whole dang newscast was full of "We've had a long, bad winter" and "If your tired of this winter...". Then the worst part is all the repeats of the cliche "Good News" or "Improvement" referring to the weather...starting to get under my skin more and more each day  .

 

I use to dislike EC radar format until recently. I thought it was pixelated and hard to analyze what was going on because there was a method called the CAP5000 or something (maybe Cappi?) that made it look unbodied. Now I like it for LES and winter storms. Its possible something changed or I did  .

I agree with this totally. I think these local forecasters focus too much on telling their viewers what they think they want to hear rather than accurately analyzing the weather. Toronto local forecasters are especially bad, although Anthony Farnell is good.

[harrisale]

I'd say 16-18 cm fell downtown. The top 2/3rds of the snow was easy to shovel as it was high-ratio fluff, but man, the bottom third was tough to shovel as it was wet and heavy.

 

Pretty much describes the system. Was fun to watch temps drop and flake size increase.

 

York U:

 

 

==========================

 

 

 

From Farnell on Twitter:

 

Several March 13th records in jeopardy: Toronto -18.3(1948), London -16.1(1960), Windsor -13.9(1960), Hamilton -12.8(1992).

[WestCoaster]

Snowstorms, the nipher is not an EC thing--it's a YYZ thing. It's getting old real quick.

[on_wx]

Agreed. Its either the same, non-detailed report one after another or what you said about "When will winter end?" type banter. The evening news is unbearable at this point to watch, the whole dang newscast was full of "We've had a long, bad winter" and "If your tired of this winter...". Then the worst part is all the repeats of the cliche "Good News" or "Improvement" referring to the weather...starting to get under my skin more and more each day 

 

I threw in the towel after Natasha Ramsahai tweeted she was entering the witness protection program earlier this week because of today's storm. Watched CP24 for about 2 minutes tonight and caught all the classic cliches.

 

CTV is on a pun train every event lately with the 'Here we snow again' and 'Snow more'.

[snowstormcanuck]

Snowstorms, the nipher is not an EC thing--it's a YYZ thing. It's getting old real quick.

 

I think niphers are used at all AWOS stations in Canada. Or at least the ones at airports.

 

That being said, his obsessing is nothing new. Had he known at the time, I wonder if he would have trashed the nipher for what it did on April 2-3, 2005.

[Torchageddon]

Impressive f-gen band draped right across the city.

 

Bullseye baby

That's amazing! I haven't seen returns for a snow event over downtown Toronto like that. A keeper and a treasure to add to the chest for the winter of 2013-2014. I haven't caught a radar shot yet of yellows IMBY. It looks like there are even a few pixels of orange in there too. Memorable heavy snow for those that don't get it as often as us up here so everyone had some I take it.

 

First time I've seen this forecast from TWN

I had a blizzard tag forecast for myself 2 times since following TWN online. One was during this winter, it was just blowing snow that wasn't nearly as impressive as the event on the Monday morning after the Friday back in late January. They didn't issue blizzard tags during the real blizzard conditions but both times they did, it wasn't .

 

I threw in the towel after Natasha Ramsahai tweeted she was entering the witness protection program earlier this week because of today's storm. Watched CP24 for about 2 minutes tonight and caught all the classic cliches.

 

CTV is on a pun train every event lately with the 'Here we snow again' and 'Snow more'.

 LOL, yeah I don't get CP24 but all that in 2 minutes, must be pretty horrid. When I first read that thing where Natasha tweeted going into the WPP I thought it had to do with EC not issuing warnings or blizzard warnings (I'm amazed like all of you as well on that) but since she doesn't work for EC, didn't fit. Now I realize its about winter in general staying. I haven't seen those CTV puns actually but I've seen it done.

 

Snowstorms, the nipher is not an EC thing--it's a YYZ thing. It's getting old real quick.

Its an EC thing because they have the power to change it. Unless I'm missing a rule from the WMO where all Internationally recognized weather stations must have this nipher thing you all speak of so much.

[on_wx]

 LOL, yeah I don't get CP24 but all that in 2 minutes, must be pretty horrid. When I first read that thing where Natasha tweeted going into the WPP I thought it had to do with EC not issuing warnings or blizzard warnings (I'm amazed like all of you as well on that) but since she doesn't work for EC, didn't fit. Now I realize its about winter in general staying. I haven't seen those CTV puns actually but I've seen it done.

 

She tweeted it maybe Monday with a big 'LOL'... 'gotta go into Witness Protection cos a storm is coming Wednesday - LOL' something like that. CP24 runs on an infinite loop of only headlines so you'll see the same story and same rhetoric every 5 minutes so it's easy to catch. 

 

It's been 5 hours and 4 updates since the first summary was issued, and EC has yet to notice they spelled the winter of 2013-14 as the winter of 20013-14. Can't un-see.

 

IN SHOCKING CONTRAST TO TUESDAY'S SPRING-LIKE WEATHER, AN INTENSE

MARCH STORM TRACKED SOUTH OF THE GREAT LAKES YESTERDAY AND PROVIDED

YET ANOTHER WINTERY REMINDER OF THE WINTER OF 20013-14.

[Torchageddon]

Incredibly stupid of EC to not have issued at least Snowfall Warnings. Virtually every model (except perhaps the RGEM) showed a minimum 15cm in the GTA. There was no reason for them to NOT issue warnings. Most of the public was caught vastly off-guard with this storm. One of EC's responsibilities is to protect people's lives by adequately informing us when dangerous weather is coming, but their gross incompetency has led me to lose almost all trust in their abilities. Some serious discussion needs to happen, but it won't.

Agreed, someone from this board or a major weather enthusiast (can be a met) should go to Environment Canada and actually ask in person what is going on. It can't be one person or even a small group causing it. I saw some YouTube videos back years ago (probably 2007-2009) where someone in the severe belt made a stink about EC failing to get warnings out either on time or at all. He brought up a great point, there hasn't been any violent tornadoes in a long time in southern Ontario but when the next one comes, EC can't do this like they are now. While I think EC is very cautious with tornadic potentials and doesn't act at all like they do with other weather warnings (they were on top during the tornado events during the last decade), there is a problem with blanket tornado warnings which should be solved. They knew exactly what was happening with the Goderich F3. Someone I knew said the big tragedy that really jolted EC awake last was the incredible pile-up in Windsor in May 1999 I think it was due to fog (no fog alerts issued). The pile-ups that are occurring every time winter weather ramps up seems to be not harsh enough for a similar "jolt".

 

I think niphers are used at all AWOS stations in Canada. Or at least the ones at airports.

 

That being said, his obsessing is nothing new. Had he known at the time, I wonder if he would have trashed the nipher for what it did on April 2-3, 2005.

Lol, get Homer Simpson to do that  (that episode where he takes a bat in his youthful days to the Springfield one).

[London snowsquall]

Could be more traffic issues today as a leftover from yesterday's weather.  Local roads have been described as very slick and icy, and a phone caller in to a local radio station this morning said the 402 between London and Sarnia is basically a sheet of ice - 80% ice and 20% bare pavement.  I know I was driving a regional road on the way home last night and it was mostly a skating rink.  Hard packed ice......... and it sure didn't go away overnight. 

[blizzardof96]

Didn't think i would be saying this but let the streak continue...

[snowstormcanuck]

Didn't think i would be saying this but let the streak continue...

Screen Shot 2014-03-13 at 7.30.03 AM.png

 

Up to 95 days. There is a relationship between the amount of snow Pearson measures and what its snowdepth number so the nipher may screw us out of the chance to get to 100 days with that ridiculous 9.2cm snowfall total for yesterday.

[Snowstorms]

Up to 95 days. There is a relationship between the amount of snow Pearson measures and what its snowdepth number so the nipher may screw us out of the chance to get to 100 days with that ridiculous 9.2cm snowfall total for yesterday.

The Nipher is a joke. EC is a joke. I dont think I have to reiterate myself as the point has already been made clear enough.

Do they meausre snow off the Nipher with a ruler? If so, why can't the guy just ****ing measure nearby the Nipher to confirm it. Ridiculous!

YYZ now at 133.4cm for the season.

[harrisale]

Up to 95 days. There is a relationship between the amount of snow Pearson measures and what its snowdepth number so the nipher may screw us out of the chance to get to 100 days with that ridiculous 9.2cm snowfall total for yesterday.

 

The surprise LES event last Thursday (the 6th) recorded a higher snowfall total at YYZ (10.6cm) than yesterday's storm. As a scientist, its disappointing to see such a contaminated data set, particularly when YYZ is considered the official observation station for Toronto. There are all sorts of consequences for having such bad data affect on research, affect on long-term climate modelling etc. The list goes on. It could also affect how storm warnings are issued in the future, there's a huge difference between a 9cm snowfall and a 20cm snowfall in terms of impacts.

 

If it wasn't for the weenies like us, true numbers may never be recorded.

 

</rant>

[snowstormcanuck]

The Nipher is a joke. EC is a joke. I dont think I have to reiterate myself as the point has already been made clear enough.

Do they meausre snow off the Nipher with a ruler? If so, why can't the guy just ****ing measure nearby the Nipher to confirm it. Ridiculous!

YYZ now at 133.4cm for the season.

 

I'm not sure how it works exactly. If Pearson truly is AWOS then I'd assume the amount in the gauge is automatically recorded. But then I'm not sure how the liquid equivalent is measured as you'd think someone would have to melt the snow. Even if there is some element of human involvement in the process, the wide open nature of Pearson would make measuring on the ground with a ruler almost impossible during windy storms like this.

 

edit: not impossible but you'd have to trudge around and get several measurements, work out an average, and use your best judgment based on how the snow's been falling, etc. So even if there is a human involved, he/she may not have the training to do that kind of investigating.

[snowstormcanuck]

The surprise LES event last Thursday (the 6th) recorded a higher snowfall total at YYZ (10.6cm) than yesterday's storm. As a scientist, its disappointing to see such a contaminated data set, particularly when YYZ is considered the official observation station for Toronto. There are all sorts of consequences for having such bad data affect on research, affect on long-term climate modelling etc. The list goes on. It could also affect how storm warnings are issued in the future, there's a huge difference between a 9cm snowfall and a 20cm snowfall in terms of impacts.

 

If it wasn't for the weenies like us, true numbers may never be recorded.

 

</rant>

 

We do have 3 other man measured stations around Toronto (with the downtown Toronto station being WMO certified), so for any serious study into Toronto snowfall, a researcher will have a number of data points. I just wish there was an asterisk next to Pearson's name on that EC climate page informing people that snow is measured peculiarly at this location.

 

http://ec.gc.ca/meteoaloeil-skywatchers/default.asp?lang=En&n=9DF2117C-1

 

The nipher snow gauge is used to capture snow and measure its water content in millimetres. It's much bigger than either the standard rain gauge or the tipping bucket. The nipher snow gauge is mounted on a sliding metal pipe so that, as snow accumulates over the winter, the whole gauge can be raised to keep the top edge 5 feet above the surface of the snow. Why? So that snow from the ground doesn't drift into the gauge and give us false readings!

 

lol at the exclamation mark. They're so proud of that fact but they don't realize it works both ways (deflation). 

[Snowstorms]

I'm not sure how it works exactly. If Pearson truly is AWOS then I'd assume the amount in the gauge is automatically recorded. But then I'm not sure how the liquid equivalent is measured as you'd think someone would have to melt the snow. Even if there is some element of human involvement in the process, the wide open nature of Pearson would make measuring on the ground with a ruler almost impossible during windy storms like this.

edit: not impossible but you'd have to trudge around and get several measurements, work out an average, and use your best judgment based on how the snow's been falling, etc. So even if there is a human involved, he/she may not have the training to do that kind of investigating.

Well the person who does measure the snow off the Nipher probably lacks basic meteorological and mathematical skills, lol. I think EC needs to understand their Nipher is giving them false readings which can skew the seasonal average.

EC has lost every bit of credibility I had left for them. They could ask volunteers to measure snow during storms so they can stay in line with the other stations and not receive any controversy. Oh well! They probably will never get rid of the Nipher.