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February 3-6 Plains/Midwest Storm


okie333

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looks like west central kansas gets what 3-4 feet? lol

some continuity tommorrow would be a treat

qpf for Goodland, KS

FRI 00Z 03-FEB   9.1	 6.9	1013	  51	  80	0.01	 558	 547	
FRI 06Z 03-FEB   2.2	 0.2	1019	  97	  99	0.21	 557	 542	
FRI 12Z 03-FEB  -0.2	-2.0	1019	  98	 100	0.53	 555	 539	
FRI 18Z 03-FEB  -0.5	-3.0	1020	  97	 100	0.46	 555	 539	
SAT 00Z 04-FEB  -0.1	-2.5	1021	  98	 100	0.49	 554	 537	
SAT 06Z 04-FEB  -0.8	-3.4	1023	  97	 100	0.49	 553	 534	
SAT 12Z 04-FEB  -2.9	-5.8	1026	  95	 100	0.41	 552	 531	
SAT 18Z 04-FEB  -3.0	-6.4	1030	  91	  99	0.20	 553	 530	
SUN 00Z 05-FEB  -3.5	-6.7	1031	  92	  99	0.09	 554	 529	
SUN 06Z 05-FEB  -3.9	-7.0	1033	  89	  95	0.04	 555	 529	
SUN 12Z 05-FEB  -5.0	-7.5	1033	  89	  98	0.02	 555	 528	
SUN 18Z 05-FEB  -4.5	-7.7	1034	  86	  95	0.02	 555	 527	
MON 00Z 06-FEB  -5.6	-7.6	1033	  88	  96	0.03	 553	 527	
MON 06Z 06-FEB  -8.1	-6.7	1032	  84	 100	0.01	 553	 528	

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It is the NAM, but the 12Z is completely phased through 42 hours. First run that has been phased fully with the secondary wave off the Baja California coast. will be interesting to see what the non-hydro NAM will look like with the Gulf fully tapped.

12z euro has jumped north again from 0z and now LBF gets nailed...we expect lots of pics, baro. :P

LBF

FRI 12Z 03-FEB   0.2	-0.3	1024	  69	  86	0.01	 558	 538  
FRI 18Z 03-FEB   2.0	-1.0	1026	  61	  99	0.02	 559	 538  
SAT 00Z 04-FEB   2.9	-1.1	1025	  82	 100	0.04	 559	 539  
SAT 06Z 04-FEB   0.7	-2.3	1025	  98	  99	0.18	 559	 538  
SAT 12Z 04-FEB  -1.0	-4.1	1025	  94	 100	0.41	 556	 536  
SAT 18Z 04-FEB  -1.9	-4.8	1027	  95	 100	0.41	 556	 534  
SUN 00Z 05-FEB  -2.3	-5.4	1028	  96	  87	0.14	 556	 533  
SUN 06Z 05-FEB  -1.8	-5.2	1029	  96	  93	0.08	 555	 532  
SUN 12Z 05-FEB  -2.4	-5.9	1029	  96	  96	0.05	 554	 531  
SUN 18Z 05-FEB  -2.5	-6.6	1029	  91	  94	0.02	 553	 530

DEN

FRI 00Z 03-FEB   4.4	 5.5	1015	  39	  82	0.01	 556	 543  
FRI 06Z 03-FEB  -0.2	 0.3	1022	  63	 100	0.03	 556	 538  
FRI 12Z 03-FEB  -2.9	-2.5	1025	  89	  99	0.28	 554	 533  
FRI 18Z 03-FEB  -3.6	-3.4	1030	  90	  98	0.31	 555	 531  
SAT 00Z 04-FEB  -3.9	-3.4	1030	  91	 100	0.24	 556	 532  
SAT 06Z 04-FEB  -4.1	-3.6	1031	  91	 100	0.19	 556	 532  
SAT 12Z 04-FEB  -4.4	-3.9	1031	  92	 100	0.25	 556	 531  
SAT 18Z 04-FEB  -4.6	-4.3	1033	  90	 100	0.19	 556	 529  
SUN 00Z 05-FEB  -4.8	-4.4	1033	  91	  99	0.10	 556	 529  
SUN 06Z 05-FEB  -5.9	-5.2	1033	  93	  93	0.04	 556	 529  
SUN 12Z 05-FEB  -7.1	-6.1	1033	  93	  78	0.01	 555	 529  

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that is for LBF.

DEN data via euro

FRI 06Z 03-FEB  -1.2	-1.0	1025	  80	  95	0.04	 555	 535	
FRI 12Z 03-FEB  -3.3	-3.2	1028	  80	 100	0.11	 554	 532	
FRI 18Z 03-FEB  -3.9	-3.6	1030	  80	 100	0.29	 556	 531	
SAT 00Z 04-FEB  -3.9	-3.4	1030	  88	  99	0.34	 556	 532	
SAT 06Z 04-FEB  -4.2	-3.8	1032	  91	 100	0.35	 556	 531	
SAT 12Z 04-FEB  -4.6	-4.2	1033	  92	  99	0.29	 556	 530	
SAT 18Z 04-FEB  -4.6	-4.4	1035	  90	  99	0.15	 558	 530	
SUN 00Z 05-FEB  -5.0	-4.4	1034	  90	  98	0.05	 558	 530	
SUN 06Z 05-FEB  -8.7	-5.2	1035	  95	  91	0.01	 558	 530	

so is that 1.4" of water content for Denver? Just wondering, since I know some people who drive down there every day.

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Dang. That would be great. Big difference from last night's forecast. HPC looks like it's thinking 4-8 inches but even that would be very nice. It's been ugly as heck the past few days, and the prairie dogs are thinking spring.

Is the Euro as much of a lock here the past couple years as it seems to have been for the Northeast? Just curious.

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Interesting now... HPC and the surrounding NWS offices to the east are getting all excited about this one for eastern CO west to the foothills, while BOU is playing it safe for the moment till the models come together better. Wonder who will end up right. Thoughts?

It is a tricky situation for the Front Range as the mid level low needs to rapidly close off and deepen as the system tracks eastward or the mid level flow will have a strong downslope flow component. The ECMWF type solution would be ideal. NAM/GFS nasomuch. FWIW I am leaning CMC/ECMWF given the incredible feedback potential we have here...which is odd as the EC/GFS have switched places with this event.

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12z euro has jumped north again from 0z and now LBF gets nailed...we expect lots of pics, baro. :P

LBF

FRI 12Z 03-FEB   0.2	-0.3	1024	  69	  86	0.01	 558	 538  
FRI 18Z 03-FEB   2.0	-1.0	1026	  61	  99	0.02	 559	 538  
SAT 00Z 04-FEB   2.9	-1.1	1025	  82	 100	0.04	 559	 539  
SAT 06Z 04-FEB   0.7	-2.3	1025	  98	  99	0.18	 559	 538  
SAT 12Z 04-FEB  -1.0	-4.1	1025	  94	 100	0.41	 556	 536  
SAT 18Z 04-FEB  -1.9	-4.8	1027	  95	 100	0.41	 556	 534  
SUN 00Z 05-FEB  -2.3	-5.4	1028	  96	  87	0.14	 556	 533  
SUN 06Z 05-FEB  -1.8	-5.2	1029	  96	  93	0.08	 555	 532  
SUN 12Z 05-FEB  -2.4	-5.9	1029	  96	  96	0.05	 554	 531  
SUN 18Z 05-FEB  -2.5	-6.6	1029	  91	  94	0.02	 553	 530

DEN

FRI 00Z 03-FEB   4.4	 5.5	1015	  39	  82	0.01	 556	 543  
FRI 06Z 03-FEB  -0.2	 0.3	1022	  63	 100	0.03	 556	 538  
FRI 12Z 03-FEB  -2.9	-2.5	1025	  89	  99	0.28	 554	 533  
FRI 18Z 03-FEB  -3.6	-3.4	1030	  90	  98	0.31	 555	 531  
SAT 00Z 04-FEB  -3.9	-3.4	1030	  91	 100	0.24	 556	 532  
SAT 06Z 04-FEB  -4.1	-3.6	1031	  91	 100	0.19	 556	 532  
SAT 12Z 04-FEB  -4.4	-3.9	1031	  92	 100	0.25	 556	 531  
SAT 18Z 04-FEB  -4.6	-4.3	1033	  90	 100	0.19	 556	 529  
SUN 00Z 05-FEB  -4.8	-4.4	1033	  91	  99	0.10	 556	 529  
SUN 06Z 05-FEB  -5.9	-5.2	1033	  93	  93	0.04	 556	 529  
SUN 12Z 05-FEB  -7.1	-6.1	1033	  93	  78	0.01	 555	 529  

I am not booking this event yet, still potential for a bust here. My biggest worry is a farther S track and/or the potential for significant Latent Heat Release and the development of a low level PV anomaly influencing the WCB flow field. The upper low needs to deepen hard and fast...and at the right time or this could end east and fast.

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So.. I'm just becoming alert to this threat... Getting out of DEN on Friday AM... bad?

given what the 00z runs are saying as of this moment, early am may be marginal. but if not departing right near sunrise, i'd maybe plan to be there until saturday. we'll see what the later runs come up with.

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It is a tricky situation for the Front Range as the mid level low needs to rapidly close off and deepen as the system tracks eastward or the mid level flow will have a strong downslope flow component. The ECMWF type solution would be ideal. NAM/GFS nasomuch. FWIW I am leaning CMC/ECMWF given the incredible feedback potential we have here...which is odd as the EC/GFS have switched places with this event.

I am not booking this event yet, still potential for a bust here. My biggest worry is a farther S track and/or the potential for significant Latent Heat Release and the development of a low level PV anomaly influencing the WCB flow field. The upper low needs to deepen hard and fast...and at the right time or this could end east and fast.

Very cool- thanks Baro. Learning something here...in New England downsloping matters little unless you're in the CT River valley, though failure to close off an ULL still means "out to sea"or just a quick hitting inch or two ... here, "sea" means Kansas.

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given what the 00z runs are saying as of this moment, early am may be marginal. but if not departing right near sunrise, i'd maybe plan to be there until saturday. we'll see what the later runs come up with.

DIA itself tends to be great in the snow, with its de-icing assembly line and runways that are far enough apart to allow parallel IFR operations, but airlines do things like cancel flights anyway sometimes to avoid impacts on the rest of their routes. Give it a day or so. If the EC verifies you might want to be renting cross-country skis for the weekend, as the plains will be getting all the fresh snow.

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DIA itself tends to be great in the snow, with its de-icing assembly line and runways that are far enough apart to allow parallel IFR operations, but airlines do things like cancel flights anyway sometimes to avoid impacts on the rest of their routes. Give it a day or so. If the EC verifies you might want to be renting cross-country skis for the weekend, as the plains will be getting all the fresh snow.

never flew there personally, or was up at 5000ft. heard the place is nice.

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just took a closer look at the 00Z models and here's what I am noticing is causing the major difference in the solutions, going west to east, up to t+84:

  • the 2nd trailing vort center to this system. the Canadian Global is the most compact between the trailer and the lead low, while the most spread out is the GFS, with the euro and NAM in the middle
  • the 700 center is the most cut-off on the canadian global, followed by the euro, NAM, and the GFS is least cut-off
  • SLP by t=84: Canadian global 1008, 1012 for the GFS, ~1013 ECMWF, 1010 on the NAM
  • and take a look at the approxamite warm front coming down on the back side of the damming high near the southern trans-canada highway in Ontario. as well as the pressures in James Bay. the vast majority of the models have the bubble-like warm front leaning down in almost pretty standard fare. but on the GFS, you actually have a low in James Bay that trowals out and hooks onto that warm front near the Lake of the Woods. this extra top-side trowal is actually flattening out the 500, 700 , and surface ridge on the top side a lot more than the other models, and maybe even weakening the surface ridge. This weaker ridge could lead to the low going a bit further north on a particular model.

i know that was getting a bit picky with everything, but those points of emphasis are looking like the main difference right now in how this system is reacting in placement and when it starts to open up or remain closed, imho.

my first guess would be to discard most of the GFS scenario and probably go more of a Canadian global/Euro blend. but we can see as time gets closer.

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DIA itself tends to be great in the snow, with its de-icing assembly line and runways that are far enough apart to allow parallel IFR operations, but airlines do things like cancel flights anyway sometimes to avoid impacts on the rest of their routes. Give it a day or so. If the EC verifies you might want to be renting cross-country skis for the weekend, as the plains will be getting all the fresh snow.

That's been my experience at DIA. I have landed under some surprising conditions. What I have going for me is that I think JetBlue is highly incented to get their planes in there and out. They have full planes going from BOS and heading straight back.

Oh well, we'll see. Flight out is 10:40 AM MT Friday.

---

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=42.367703,-71.016073

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Great Work....I have noticed that the NAM closes that nothern feature of the H5 low. I think CO gets smashed!!! Denver looks to get around 6-12" (IMO) It wouldn't surprise me if some people see blizzard conditions and over a FOOT of snow.

just took a closer look at the 00Z models and here's what I am noticing is causing the major difference in the solutions, going west to east, up to t+84:

  • the 2nd trailing vort center to this system. the Canadian Global is the most compact between the trailer and the lead low, while the most spread out is the GFS, with the euro and NAM in the middle
  • the 700 center is the most cut-off on the canadian global, followed by the euro, NAM, and the GFS is least cut-off
  • SLP by t=84: Canadian global 1008, 1012 for the GFS, ~1013 ECMWF, 1010 on the NAM
  • and take a look at the approxamite warm front coming down on the back side of the damming high near the southern trans-canada highway in Ontario. as well as the pressures in James Bay. the vast majority of the models have the bubble-like warm front leaning down in almost pretty standard fare. but on the GFS, you actually have a low in James Bay that trowals out and hooks onto that warm front near the Lake of the Woods. this extra top-side trowal is actually flattening out the 500, 700 , and surface ridge on the top side a lot more than the other models, and maybe even weakening the surface ridge. This weaker ridge could lead to the low going a bit further north on a particular model.

i know that was getting a bit picky with everything, but those points of emphasis are looking like the main difference right now in how this system is reacting in placement and when it starts to open up or remain closed, imho.

my first guess would be to discard most of the GFS scenario and probably go more of a Canadian global/Euro blend. but we can see as time gets closer.

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looking at the 12Z runs this morning, both the nam and the GFS are starting to latch onto the idea of the weakness being generated with that surface trough based in James and Hudson bays at t+72. it'll be interesting what the euro and canadian global are saying on that scenario. maybe the GFS was onto something? or are both models dreaming?

(edit below)

took a look at the 12Z canadian global. it's stronger with the other frontal boundary coming down James and Hudson Bays than the last run. it's not building an all-out trowal to the milder prairie airmass like the GFS and NAM, but the trens is looking like that weakness is starting to affect the system more, as the system's look in MO is appearing a bit more like the GFS than previous runs.

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So.. I'm just becoming alert to this threat... Getting out of DEN on Friday AM... bad?

You may have serious troubles trying to drive there and/or park there.

Looks like this will be a big one for Devner. Possibly 5" or for my location, based on the 9z SREF.

I don't think Denver has seen many storms over 7" in February.

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I live in Denver and fly into/out of DIA frequently....most recently being during the 12/22/11 snowstorm. It was nearly whiteout conditions at the airport during that snowstorm. From the terminal, you couldnt see the rear of parked planes. Yet the airport was still functioning, although with sizable delays. From my experience, there are two things you have to be concerned about:

1) Driving to/from DIA. Driving Pena Blvd during a snowstorm can be scary, esp if there's any wind. Your flight may be unaffected, but you'll find it difficult or impossible to actually get to the airport to catch your flight.

2) Flight operations are open, but extremely delayed. During the 12/22 snowstorm, we sat on the tarmac waiting to be de-iced/takeoff for 2.5 hours. This means if you have connections (like I did) you might miss them.

Good luck!

That's been my experience at DIA. I have landed under some surprising conditions. What I have going for me is that I think JetBlue is highly incented to get their planes in there and out. They have full planes going from BOS and heading straight back.

Oh well, we'll see. Flight out is 10:40 AM MT Friday.

---

I am here: http://maps.google.c...7703,-71.016073

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