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Second Winter Storm Threat - Oct 29/30


Baroclinic Zone

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Matt Noyes said inside 495 may have mostly rain due to the winds off the warm water despite what the models say.

Noyes playing it conservatively... mentioned Western CT, Western/Central MA, and Southern VT having potential for "3, 4, or 5 inches of snow" but areas further east, esp inside 495, will have difficulty with influence of warm SSTs

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If wxsniss is right ..... I counted up and it has like 3.5" to 4" of snow here and more like 6" or 6.5" in general in southern VT.

That would be less than the GFS, but definitely more generous than the NAM.

Whatever those wx underground simulated snowfall maps mean ....it certainly looked like southern VT was in it good for 8 or more hours.

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first winter storm watch in OCTOBER!!!!!

...WINTER STORM WATCH FROM SATURDAY AFTERNOON THROUGH SUNDAY MORNING FOR CTZ002>004.MA...WINTER STORM WATCH FROM SATURDAY AFTERNOON THROUGH SUNDAY MORNING FOR MAZ002>006-008>014-017-026. FREEZE WARNING UNTIL 8 AM EDT THIS MORNING FOR MAZ007-014-020- 021.NH...WINTER STORM WATCH FROM SATURDAY AFTERNOON THROUGH SUNDAY MORNING FOR NHZ011-012-015.RI...WINTER STORM WATCH FROM SATURDAY AFTERNOON THROUGH SUNDAY MORNING FOR RIZ001-002. FREEZE WARNING UNTIL 8 AM EDT THIS MORNING FOR RIZ002>007.

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Impressive AFD:

In either case dynamics are very strong with this event thanks to good deformation and frontogenesis in the classic trowal sense. Given these strong dynamics...feel that much of the area will see at least some -sn with this current trend thanks to strong dynamic cooling. The best banding looks to be right along the corridor mentioned in the previous afd...from the north central CT Highlands through northern Rhode Island and into the bos suburbs. The key will be winds to draw either cool air or marine air into the frontogenetical system...as winds shift to more of a north component thanks to strong isallobaric flow north of this line...and may even become more east-southeast S of the line which would draw warmer marine air to the coastal plain. The cool air meets warm marine air is also a factor in the generation of strong coastal frontogenesis...which may aid in snow/rain fall near Eastern Shores. There is still some time to nail this down as the relatively small /50+ nm or so/ differences in track could make a huge difference in either a high snow total or a mix. However...this will have to be monitored because thanks to the strong dynamics...quantitative precipitation forecast totals will be very high...and even areas that stay mostly rain could have the potential for some flooding.

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Interior SNE FTW.....I still cannot see how this misses those folks

Seems like there's some debate about how far inland coastal front will set up, with very warm SSTs atypical for these types of events being a factor... simply no precedent, and I can see why there's hedging.

For example, Noyes seemed to suggest that despite the dynamics, the marine influence would be tough to overcome inside 495 for any accumulation. On the other hand, Euro / NAM suggest potential for near warning criteria for Boston suburbs.

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Impressive AFD:

In either case dynamics are very strong with this event thanks to good deformation and frontogenesis in the classic trowal sense. Given these strong dynamics...feel that much of the area will see at least some -sn with this current trend thanks to strong dynamic cooling. The best banding looks to be right along the corridor mentioned in the previous afd...from the north central CT Highlands through northern Rhode Island and into the bos suburbs. The key will be winds to draw either cool air or marine air into the frontogenetical system...as winds shift to more of a north component thanks to strong isallobaric flow north of this line...and may even become more east-southeast S of the line which would draw warmer marine air to the coastal plain. The cool air meets warm marine air is also a factor in the generation of strong coastal frontogenesis...which may aid in snow/rain fall near Eastern Shores. There is still some time to nail this down as the relatively small /50+ nm or so/ differences in track could make a huge difference in either a high snow total or a mix. However...this will have to be monitored because thanks to the strong dynamics...quantitative precipitation forecast totals will be very high...and even areas that stay mostly rain could have the potential for some flooding.

Will and I mentioned some of this. The coastal front should be pretty nuts. Not that there is a massive temp gradient like in winter, but warmer sst's giving off more moisture may make for one hell of a front. That, and the frontogenesis will be tremendous.

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Wow, the euro goes apesh*t for about 6-8 hrs. GFS dryslots some, but still spesh*t.....LOL. What the hell is happening???

yeah this is some serious pre-"2012"/"DayAfterTomorrow" stuff... back-to-back blizzards, F3, earthquake, hurricane...

i'm afraid to honk this snowstorm to colleagues because i just can't believe the model output, it's remarkable for mid-winter, but just too unreal for october

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yeah this is some serious pre-"2012"/"DayAfterTomorrow" stuff... back-to-back blizzards, F3, earthquake, hurricane...

i'm afraid to honk this snowstorm to colleagues because i just can't believe the model output, it's remarkable for mid-winter, but just too unreal for october

It's still going to be rain for a while on the coast, but when winds go north, it could go nuts for about 6 hrs. That and the wind looks very strong.

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Yeah it is. Wow.

I cannot believe I'm issuing a forecast that is more than the October snowfall record for ORH. I'm doing it. I'm going 8-12" for those hills. Record at ORH is 7.5" in 1979. Maybe I should go 6-12" to cover myself.

I want to go 5-9" but its too hard to ignore the signals...I can't go that low with it as cold as it is. If it was all -1C, I'd go 3-6, but its so cold.

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I cannot believe I'm issuing a forecast that is more than the October snowfall record for ORH. I'm doing it. I'm going 8-12" for those hills. Record at ORH is 7.5" in 1979. Maybe I should go 6-12" to cover myself.

I want to go 5-9" but its too hard to ignore the signals...I can't go that low with it as cold as it is. If it was all -1C, I'd go 3-6, but its so cold.

Well look at that data. And the EC ensembles. They're gonna drop to like 30F too. I think 8-12 above 800' from you on north is ....gulp....solid at this point. Unless this comes into Bob's fanny...seems reasonable that it will be near the BM I guess. I suppose wait until 06z to dumb it down 6-12...but look at the data man. I can't believe this. We may never see this again...ever.

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Well look at that data. And the EC ensembles. They're gonna drop to like 30F too. I think 8-12 above 800' from you on north is ....gulp....solid at this point. Unless this comes into Bob's fanny...seems reasonable that it will be near the BM I guess. I suppose wait until 06z to dumb it down 6-12...but look at the data man. I can't believe this. We may never see this again...ever.

Hell Kevin might be right there too.

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It's still going to be rain for a while on the coast, but when winds go north, it could go nuts for about 6 hrs. That and the wind looks very strong.

oh i understand... i'm expecting, at best, a mini-April 97 for Boston metro: sun sets and heavy rain changes to ballistic snow for a good 6 hours... but the public is not in this mindframe at all. and obviously the impact will be much worse 10-20 miles further inland.

i'm in awe of just how much this deviates from the norm established by > 100 years of record keeping.

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