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Retrograde Snowstorm by 12/5?


CT Rain

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Why are folks even looking at the 18z GFS for day 8-9 threat.....who cares what it had.

I mean, have a gander for the sake of curiosity, but it shouldn't be the source of angst.

The 18z DGEX gave us 2-4" from the clipper. That should relax everyone's fears.

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I think there are signs of the Pacific becoming a little more hostile. The models , while wavering a bit, have trended to raise heights across the US. I think even though some are cursing this block...it may very well be the life savior down the road.

Who knows, maybe it won't be all the strong and we are stuck in an icebox for the rest of the month, but the GOA trough does get pretty strong on all models. All is not bad, because me thinks storm chances may arise from it.

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I think there are signs of the Pacific becoming a little more hostile. The models , while wavering a bit, have trended to raise heights across the US. I think even though some are cursing this block...it may very well be the life savior down the road.

Who knows, maybe it won't be all the strong and we are stuck in an icebox for the rest of the month, but the GOA trough does get pretty strong on all models. All is not bad, because me thinks storm chances may arise from it.

Dec 1970 was a classic example of a pretty potent GOA low with a -NAO...the NAO kept New England quite cold, and ofc ourse it was very snowy. You can see how the -NAO that month was a bit more east based which drives the colder anomalies to SE Canada/NE...esp in conjunction with a hostile pacific. That month also had the ridging up through Kamchatka and Bering Straight area like this month looks to have...to help keep good cold in Canada.

compday6618977100336173.gif

cd661897710033617366prc.png

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Dec 1970 was a classic example of a pretty potent GOA low with a -NAO...the NAO kept New England quite cold, and ofc ourse it was very snowy. You can see how the -NAO that month was a bit more east based which drives the colder anomalies to SE Canada/NE...esp in conjunction with a hostile pacific. That month also had the ridging up through Kamchatka and Bering Straight area like this month looks to have...to help keep good cold in Canada.

compday6618977100336173.gif

cd661897710033617366prc.png

That's very similar to what's being depicted, don't you think? I'm not trying to hint at a torch...I just mean we may be thanking that block.

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That's very similar to what's being depicted, don't you think? I'm not trying to hint at a torch...I just mean we may be thanking that block.

Yeah its quite similar...1970 has been in the ensemble analog guidance many times already.

I knew you weren't saying torch...I was just posting agreeing how the -NAO can be a good thing...esp when you start getting an uglier Pacific.

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Yeah its quite similar...1970 has been in the ensemble analog guidance many times already.

I knew you weren't saying torch...I was just posting agreeing how the -NAO can be a good thing...esp when you start getting an uglier Pacific.

Yeah that year has been flagged numerous times.

As frustrating as it is...I don't mind the postponement for storms. The extra 2 weeks in December really helps out for us coastal folk in general.

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Yeah that year has been flagged numerous times.

As frustrating as it is...I don't mind the postponement for storms. The extra 2 weeks in December really helps out for us coastal folk in general.

I'm glad it looks like the pattern will remain favorable out to the foreseeable future. I know we thought it would be cold with chances the first ten days of the month, but we weren't sure about beyond that...but now it looks like a pretty good pattern for the middle of the month too. Hopefully the weeklies are correct and we see the good setup continue through New Years.

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Dec '96.

Well at least I saw that coming. I'm looking at the combo of not only getting screwed by a change over, but also a watching a blizzard warning compact to 5" of cement. I at least busted on the + side during the first part of the Dec '96 event with some TSSN to boot. It was pretty frustrating to see Cantore getting a stinger on air with the second part, just 40 miles west of me..lol.

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If it was stronger, we'd be getting that retrograde storm about 3 days from now instead of having it go into northern Maine.

True but would it be snow? I have doubts even down your neck of the woods. I mean they're predicting rain even into Montreal. The east based -NAO that you posted the maps for looks much better for everyone involved. JMHO. Allows the cold to flow in and lets storms amplify a bit.

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True but would it be snow? I have doubts even down your neck of the woods. I mean they're predicting rain even into Montreal. The east based -NAO that you posted the maps for looks much better for everyone involved. JMHO. Allows the cold to flow in and lets storms amplify a bit.

Well as long as it didn't rip too far west it would be snow. It would be similar to New Years event. The Euro was hinting at this happening a few times, but it just wasn't quite enough of a block to push the vortex further south.

Dec 5-6, 1981 saw a similar storm too. It gave most of eastern half of Maine rain while Boston and suburbs got 1-2 feet of snow.

http://www.meteo.psu.edu/~gadomski/NARR/1981/us1206.php

The east based -NAO I agree tends to be a better pattern for a larger system to amplify rather than relying on retrograde and clipper scenarios.

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The east based -NAO I agree tends to be a better pattern for a larger system to amplify rather than relying on retrograde and clipper scenarios.

will .....do you have any research or stats regarding SNE snowfall with EAST based blocks vs West based - NAO's . I don't hear this discussed much but it seems of significance..

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will .....do you have any research or stats regarding SNE snowfall with EAST based blocks vs West based - NAO's . I don't hear this discussed much but it seems of significance..

I don't.

I'm not sure there is a substantial difference in snowfall between the two here...but it might be something to research. The east based block just puts the cold in a different spot vs the west based block...but both can be quite favorable for snow. There's way too much emphasis being put on last year WRT west based blocking climo. Feb 1978, Feb 1969, Dec 1961, Mar 2001 are all notable storms just off the top of my head that had big west based blocks that hit SNE hard.

West based blocks if they are extreme can produce some weird patterns, and occasionally like at the end of last winter, they can produce a really crap pattern...but there's more at play than just the block. Last year the PAC blocking above the EPO region over toward Asia got strong too in conjunction with the west based block and cut off the cold from the pole...so that was a contributor as well to the rotting airmass.

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