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JAN. 6-9 LES Set up


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IWX continues to emphasize the possibility of a significant LES event downwind of Lake Michigan for the affected dates as a mammoth 1030-1040 mb high eases down the lee of the Rockies. If a noreaster moves up the mid atlantic and new england areas as well this could provide a long duration fetch for favored lake snow areas of IN and MI. Something to watch at least in what may be a fairly hum drum week after all the New Year's weather excitement.

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IWX continues to emphasize the possibility of a significant LES event downwind of Lake Michigan for the affected dates as a mammoth 1030-1040 mb high eases down the lee of the Rockies. If a noreaster moves up the mid atlantic and new england areas as well this could provide a long duration fetch for favored lake snow areas of IN and MI. Something to watch at least in what may be a fairly hum drum week after all the New Year's weather excitement.

Hopefully the euro ensembles which so far have been holding firm are correct. If so it could be a bigger deal for a few further up this way who have been screwed all season by the never ending n/nnw flow events.

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Hopefully the euro ensembles which so far have been holding firm are correct. If so it could be a bigger deal for a few further up this way who have been screwed all season by the never ending n/nnw flow events.

I am with you 100% on this. Atlanta, GA had as much snow on the ground on 12/26 as there was at my home in Michigan. I am hoping this is correct. At least GRR is giving us a little hope for something later in the week.

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IWX still sees reason for concern for a significant LES downwind as we approach the weekend. Excerpt from AFD...

ACTIVE NW FLOW WILL SUPPORT A PHASING CLIPPER DISTURBANCE IN THE

PERIOD...WITH WAA LIGHT SNOW POSSIBLE WED NIGHT...THEN INCREASING

CHANCES FOR LAKE SNOWS THUR INTO THUR NIGHT GIVEN STRONG CAA.

INCREASING CONFIDENCE PER MODEL CONSISTENCY AND CONTINUITY HAS

SUPPORTED SOME POP ADJUSTMENT...BUT PREVIOUS FORECAST WAS MAINLY IN

GOOD SHAPE. CONCERNS FOR A STRONG LAKE EFFECT SNOW SETUP THUR INTO

FRI REMAIN. LK SFC TO H85 DELTA T/S OF OVER 20C WOULD SUPPORT LAKE

INDUCED CAPES OF OVER 500 J/KG WITH STRONG LIFT THROUGH THE

DENDRITIC GROWTH ZONE GIVEN INVERSION BASES ABOVE 6KFT WITH

EQUILIBRIUM LEVELS ABOVE THE DENDRITIC GROWTH ZONE. GIVEN CURRENT

PROGGED FLOW AND THERMAL STRUCTURE...A STRONG DOMINANT SHORELINE

BAND WOULD BE EXPECTED WITH WEAKER...BUT STILL INTENSE FLANKING

PARALLEL MULITBANDS. IN ADDITION...LL HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT PER

AGGREGATE EFFECTS OF LK SUPERIOR WOULD LIKELY ALLOW FOR A DEEPER

GREAT LAKES UPPER VORTEX...WITH FLOW ADJUSTMENT SUPPORTING LONGER

FETCH OVER LK MI. STILL MUCH UNCERTAINTY AS TO WHERE HEAVIEST SNOW

WOULD BE EXPECTED GIVEN WAVERING LL FLOW TRAJECTORIES IN MODEL

PROGS. COLD TEMPS STILL ON TRACK WITH NO ADJUSTMENT NEEDED TO THE

FORECAST AS COLD AIR LOOKS TO REMAIN THROUGH THE WEEKEND. ADDITIONAL

WEAKER IMPULSES ADVECTING SE ON THE PERIPHERY OF THE ANCHORED UPPER

VORTEX WOULD LIKELY SUPPORT SUSTAINED RAISED INVERSION HEIGHTS WITH

A LONG DURATION LAKE EFFECT SNOW SETUP...LASTING THROUGH THE

WEEKEND. HENCE...OPTED FOR MOSTLY CLOUDY CONDITIONS WITH SNOW

SHOWER CHANCES LINGERING IN THE NW AFTER SAT.

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IWX continues to fine tune the LES prospects for nw IN and sw MI Thursday night into Friday...:weight_lift:

THURSDAY NIGHT

INTO FRIDAY WILL SEE A DRAMATIC INCREASE IN LAKE CONTRIBUTION AS

UPPER LOW BRINGS IN CORE OF MUCH COLDER AIR /850 MB TEMPS MINUS 15

TO 18 C/ RESULTING IN DELTA T VALUES HOVERING AROUND 20 C.

EQUILIBRIUM LEVELS WILL CLIMB TO ABOVE 10000 FT WITH LAKE INDUCED

CAPE EXCEEDING 750 J/KG PER 12Z NAM BUFKIT DATA DURING THE DAY

FRIDAY. DGZ WILL BE COLLOCATED WITH DEEPEST MSTR AND LIFT ENHANCING

POTENTIAL AS WELL. CONCERNS WILL BE EXACT LOCATION OF BANDS AND PRE

CONDITIONING SOURCES. MODEL DATA INTO FRIDAY SUGGESTING MORE OF A NW

FETCH CONTINUING WITH SOME CONTRIBUTION FROM LAKE SUPERIOR AS WELL

AS SYNOPTIC MSTR FROM THE UPPER LOW AND SEVERAL WAVES MOVING THROUGH

THE FLOW. HAVE INCREASED CHC POPS AWAY FROM THE LAKE THURS NGT WITH

WHAT APPEAR TO BE A DECENT BURST OF SNOW SHOWERS WITH THE S/W ENERGY

AS THE UPPER LOW DROPS IN. FOR FRIDAY HAVE INCREASE TO CAT POPS IN

FAR NW AREAS TO HIGHLIGHT GREATEST POTENTIAL AND CONFIDENCE FOR

ACCUMS GIVEN ABOVE CONCERNS. SUSPECT THAT HEADLINES WILL BE NEEDED

AS WE GET CLOSER TO THE EVENT FOR NW PARTS OF THE FORECAST AREA. IN

ADDITION...ACCUMULATING SNOWFALL WILL LIKELY BE MORE EXTENSIVE THAN

SHOWN BUT WOULD RATHER AWAIT FINER DETAIL UNTIL CLOSER TO EVENT.

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IWX continues to fine tune the LES prospects for nw IN and sw MI Thursday night into Friday...:weight_lift:

THURSDAY NIGHT

INTO FRIDAY WILL SEE A DRAMATIC INCREASE IN LAKE CONTRIBUTION AS

UPPER LOW BRINGS IN CORE OF MUCH COLDER AIR /850 MB TEMPS MINUS 15

TO 18 C/ RESULTING IN DELTA T VALUES HOVERING AROUND 20 C.

EQUILIBRIUM LEVELS WILL CLIMB TO ABOVE 10000 FT WITH LAKE INDUCED

CAPE EXCEEDING 750 J/KG PER 12Z NAM BUFKIT DATA DURING THE DAY

FRIDAY. DGZ WILL BE COLLOCATED WITH DEEPEST MSTR AND LIFT ENHANCING

POTENTIAL AS WELL. CONCERNS WILL BE EXACT LOCATION OF BANDS AND PRE

CONDITIONING SOURCES. MODEL DATA INTO FRIDAY SUGGESTING MORE OF A NW

FETCH CONTINUING WITH SOME CONTRIBUTION FROM LAKE SUPERIOR AS WELL

AS SYNOPTIC MSTR FROM THE UPPER LOW AND SEVERAL WAVES MOVING THROUGH

THE FLOW. HAVE INCREASED CHC POPS AWAY FROM THE LAKE THURS NGT WITH

WHAT APPEAR TO BE A DECENT BURST OF SNOW SHOWERS WITH THE S/W ENERGY

AS THE UPPER LOW DROPS IN. FOR FRIDAY HAVE INCREASE TO CAT POPS IN

FAR NW AREAS TO HIGHLIGHT GREATEST POTENTIAL AND CONFIDENCE FOR

ACCUMS GIVEN ABOVE CONCERNS. SUSPECT THAT HEADLINES WILL BE NEEDED

AS WE GET CLOSER TO THE EVENT FOR NW PARTS OF THE FORECAST AREA. IN

ADDITION...ACCUMULATING SNOWFALL WILL LIKELY BE MORE EXTENSIVE THAN

SHOWN BUT WOULD RATHER AWAIT FINER DETAIL UNTIL CLOSER TO EVENT.

Nice discussion. The potential with this does look great but alot will come down to where everything ends up this weekend. The further south everything is then so will be the LES ( more northerly flow ) and as well next weeks system too. Ofcourse if everything is on the move ( thus a more variable flow from say wnw to nnw and back wnw etc ) then accumulations may be kept in check. Ofcourse my hope is everything is a bit further north to help keep the flow more wnw. :scooter:

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IWX seems to be hedging their bets at the moment at least regarding LES from earlier thoughts.

LAKE EFFECT SNOW SHOWERS ALSO EXPECTED TO INCREASE EARLY THURSDAY

MORNING BEHIND INITIAL SHORT WAVE. DELTA T VALUES INITIALLY ONLY

AROUND 13C SO EXPECT ACTIVITY TO BE LIGHT THROUGH MID DAY. PASSAGE

OF SECONDARY SHORT WAVE WILL BRING COLDER AIR AND INCREASE DELTA T

VALUES TO MID TEENS WITH DEEPER MIXING LAYER. CYCLONIC FLOW AND A

LONGER NORTHWEST FETCH SHOULD HELP INCREASE ACTIVITY WEDNESDAY

NIGHT. EXPECT A FEW INCHES OF ACCUMULATION...ESPECIALLY NORTHERN

PORTIONS OF BERRIEN AND CASS COUNTY WHERE 2 TO 4 INCHES POSSIBLE BY

FRIDAY MORNING WITH A GOOD BAND. NOT PLANNING ANY HEADLINES WITH

THIS ISSUANCE AS EVENT WILL BE DRAWN OUT AND SEVERAL EMBEDDED SHORT

WAVES AND SURFACE TROUGHS WILL LEAD TO PERTURBED FLOW AND MEANDERING

BANDS MAKING LOCATION DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE AT THIS TIME RANGE.

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DTX comes in with a couple nice gems

PATTERN WILL REMAIN CONDUCIVE FOR SNOW SHOWER DEVELOPMENT BOTH

FRIDAY AND SATURDAY AS THE AFOREMENTIONED POLAR VORTEX PIVOTS

SOUTHWARD AND ACROSS SOUTHEAST LOWER MICHIGAN. THE APPROACH OF THIS

SYSTEM WILL ALLOW WINDS TO BACK TO WESTERLY AGAIN ON FRIDAY...

LEAVING THE DOOR OPEN FOR A HIGHER INTENSITY EASTWARD PENETRATING

LAKE BAND TO SETUP SOMEWHERE WITHIN THE ARB-DTW/I-94 AND I-69

CORRIDOR. THE DEGREE OF INSTABILITY WITH SUSTAINED LAKE-INDUCED

EQUILIBRIUM LEVELS AROUND 10K FT OVER LAKE MICHIGAN WOULD MORE THAN

SUPPORT THIS...SHOULD THE CONVERGENCE AXIS REMAIN LESS TRANSIENT.

REGARDLESS...THE BACKGROUND SETUP /GOOD LAPSE RATES AND ADEQUATE

MOISTURE/ SUPPORTS NUMEROUS COVERAGE AREAWIDE FOR THE DAY. UPPER

VORTEX/MID LEVEL COLD POOL OVERHEAD FRIDAY NIGHT INTO SATURDAY WILL

MAINTAIN A THERMODYNAMIC/MOISTURE PROFILE WORTHY OF AT LEAST

SCATTERED SNOW SHOWER DEVELOPMENT...WHILE THE POTENTIAL EXISTS FOR

MORE CONCENTRATED LAKE EFFECT ACTIVITY TO DEVELOP INTO THE THUMB

SATURDAY/SATURDAY NIGHT AS THE FLOW TURNS NORTH-NORTHEASTERLY ON THE

BACKSIDE OF THIS SYSTEM. OVERALL...THE OPPORTUNITY WILL CERTAINLY

BE THERE FOR SOME AREAS TO GRIND OUT SEVERAL INCHES OF ADDITIONAL

ACCUMULATION FROM FRIDAY THROUGH SATURDAY NIGHT.

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Now have a LES watch! A true first for here. Have had last minute Warnings/Advisories but never a watch since i moved here atleast.

URGENT - WINTER WEATHER MESSAGE

NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE GRAND RAPIDS MI

416 PM EST WED JAN 5 2011

MIZ037-038-043-044-050-056-057-064-065-071>073-060530-

/O.NEW.KGRR.LE.A.0001.110106T2100Z-110108T0000Z/

MASON-LAKE-OCEANA-NEWAYGO-MUSKEGON-OTTAWA-KENT-ALLEGAN-BARRY-

VAN BUREN-KALAMAZOO-CALHOUN-

INCLUDING THE CITIES OF...LUDINGTON...BALDWIN...HART...FREMONT...

MUSKEGON...JENISON...GRAND RAPIDS...HOLLAND...HASTINGS...

SOUTH HAVEN...KALAMAZOO...BATTLE CREEK

416 PM EST WED JAN 5 2011

...LAKE EFFECT SNOW WATCH IN EFFECT FROM THURSDAY AFTERNOON

THROUGH FRIDAY EVENING...

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN GRAND RAPIDS HAS ISSUED A LAKE

EFFECT SNOW WATCH...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM THURSDAY AFTERNOON

THROUGH FRIDAY EVENING.

IMPACTS...

* POTENTIAL FOR SLIPPERY ROADS AND POOR VISIBILITIES IN WHITEOUTS.

* POTENTIALLY SLOWED TRAVEL... WITH SLIDE OFFS AND ACCIDENTS

POSSIBLE. SECTIONS OF INTERSTATES AND HIGHWAYS MAY NEED TO BE

CLOSED AT TIMES TO DEAL WITH THESE ISSUES.

HAZARDOUS WEATHER...

* FREQUENT SNOW SHOWERS...POSSIBLY HEAVY AT TIMES.

* TOTAL SNOW ACCUMULATION OF 8 OR MORE INCHES POSSIBLE... AND

LOCALLY IN EXCESS OF ONE FOOT.

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Now have a LES watch! A true first for here. Have had last minute Warnings/Advisories but never a watch since i moved here atleast.

GRR is starting to sound a little bullish on this event. Let's hope they are right. It will go a long way towards making up for the miserable December we had.

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GRR is starting to sound a little bullish on this event. Let's hope they are right. It will go a long way towards making up for the miserable December we had.

Actually Watches are common out that way ( just a very slow year so far this winter ) and even in Kalamazoo just to my west. It is here in this county they are a bit rare. Not sure if i would call it bullish because everything appears to be there for such a great event. I would have even considered adding Eaton county just to my n/ne. That's me though. I am by no means a expert on this stuff. This stuff i do know tends to surprise be it alot more or even alot less with these more westerly type flow events.

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IWX seems to be hedging their bets at the moment at least regarding LES from earlier thoughts.

Well, we must remember that they are forecasting the IWX area only. Their main concern with this event is Berrien and Cass in MI and Elkhart in IN. Could get some nice snows in that area, but it looks like the major accumulations will occur up Van Buren, Allegan, and Ottawa counties.

Also, part of the long term discussion you left out mentioned the possibility of a meso low forming and dropping south Saturday. That could drop some significant amounts in short period of time if it comes to fruition. Just something to watch.

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Actually Watches are common out that way ( just a very slow year so far this winter ) and even in Kalamazoo just to my west. It is here in this county they are a bit rare. Not sure if i would call it bullish because everything appears to be there for such a great event. I would have even considered adding Eaton county just to my n/ne. That's me though. I am by no means a expert on this stuff. This stuff i do know tends to surprise be it alot more or even alot less with these more westerly type flow events.

As said Harry, Im being VERY conservative because of how LES usually does pan out this far east, however from what I see it looks almost too good to be true. What can go wrong? I ask that so we can narrow it down. Because other than that, it looks pretty good.

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Well, we must remember that they are forecasting the IWX area only. Their main concern with this event is Berrien and Cass in MI and Elkhart in IN. Could get some nice snows in that area, but it looks like the major accumulations will occur up Van Buren, Allegan, and Ottawa counties.

Also, part of the long term discussion you left out mentioned the possibility of a meso low forming and dropping south Saturday. That could drop some significant amounts in short period of time if it comes to fruition. Just something to watch.

Was one of them meso lows that gave me my first ever LES warning a few years back in 06-07. They can play havoc as that did which ended up sending a massive band down nearly the length of the Lake and made a hard right turn east down i94 to Jackson etc. South side of town here managed a foot+ from it.

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As said Harry, Im being VERY conservative because of how LES usually does pan out this far east, however from what I see it looks almost too good to be true. What can go wrong? I ask that so we can narrow it down. Because other than that, it looks pretty good.

Yeah I have to be honest I like the chances of probably a decent hit (2-4) out of this one for some areas of the Metro. Equilibrium levels of ~10k is pretty solid.

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As said Harry, Im being VERY conservative because of how LES usually does pan out this far east, however from what I see it looks almost too good to be true. What can go wrong? I ask that so we can narrow it down. Because other than that, it looks pretty good.

Lack of moisture for starters. Single mega band that steals the show from everywhere else and thus leaving some in a dead zone. I don't blame you for being conservative. Even i remain cautiously optimistic. Sure it will snow and a few inches looks like a good bet but the bigger time stuff i am taking a wait and see attitude as i have been burned one too many times with this stuff. :)

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Yeah I have to be honest I like the chances of probably a decent hit (2-4) out of this one for some areas of the Metro. Equilibrium levels of ~10k is pretty solid.

Lack of moisture for starters. Single mega band that steals the show from everywhere else and thus leaving some in a dead zone. I don't blame you for being conservative. Even i remain cautiously optimistic. Sure it will snow and a few inches looks like a good bet but the bigger time stuff i am taking a wait and see attitude as i have been burned one too many times with this stuff. :)

Normally I would say even a few inches is too high for here, but the fact that it is not PURE lake effect (ie, there are all those shortwave features), plus pretty much everything we need to work out for lake effect here is forecast to workout....I can see this being quite good for metro-Detroit :)

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Do we have any members here in northern WI? Some of the Gogebic region/Northland and southward will be getting some killer LES too.

Only one even close to there is wishforsnow but he lives in Hancock MI i think? Use to be a couple of people who lived in/near Ashland, WI over at the other board. Not sure if it was School related or they just did not make it here?

That's all i know of.

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Only one even close to there is wishforsnow but he lives in Hancock MI i think? Use to be a couple of people who lived in/near Ashland, WI over at the other board. Not sure if it was School related or they just did not make it here?

That's all i know of.

Thanks for the info.

It would be nice if we had folks from that region for storm reports. They get some unique LES and they are a difficult region to forecast for. The way Superior likes to freeze on that end but also remain open in spots makes it a challenge because they can still get slammed when most of the lake is frozen. Moreover the upslope into Hurley/Ironwood and surrounding cities make it a prime target for some ridiculous snow gradients.

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Normally I would say even a few inches is too high for here, but the fact that it is not PURE lake effect (ie, there are all those shortwave features), plus pretty much everything we need to work out for lake effect here is forecast to workout....I can see this being quite good for metro-Detroit :)

DTX put several inches of accumulations and intense snow in the HWO, so they must be confident enough about this event to throw that much out there. So far I have about 2 inches total in my point forecast.

However, it did spark my interest that they think the band will set up between I-94 and I-69 versus along I-94 and south.

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DTX put several inches of accumulations and intense snow in the HWO, so they must be confident enough about this event to throw that much out there. So far I have about 2 inches total in my point forecast.

However, it did spark my interest that they think the band will set up between I-94 and I-69 versus along I-94 and south.

When I was living in Ann Arbor 4 years ago, DTX issued a very rare Lake Effect Snow Advisory for Washtenaw and Livingston Counties. They were honking the event for days and it looked great on the models right up until the event. What happened? A trace to half inch at best.

It's extremely difficult to forecast LES for SE Mich that's Lake Michigan induced. So many wrenches into the equation that pinpointing an exact spot is impossible. I don't know how many times I've heard the blanket, "between I-94 and I-69 corridor" phrase from DTX, but really, that's the best you can do.

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When I was living in Ann Arbor 4 years ago, DTX issued a very rare Lake Effect Snow Advisory for Washtenaw and Livingston Counties. They were honking the event for days and it looked great on the models right up until the event. What happened? A trace to half inch at best.

It's extremely difficult to forecast LES for SE Mich that's Lake Michigan induced. So many wrenches into the equation that pinpointing an exact spot is impossible. I don't know how many times I've heard the blanket, "between I-94 and I-69 corridor" phrase from DTX, but really, that's the best you can do.

I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if we didn't get anything appreciable, I really only like Lake Effect Snow for the intense snowfall rates (which is more important to me than the actual accumulation), that's not to say appreciable accumulation from lake effect snow wouldn't be a premium. However, I do believe up here in Michigan we have better odds of getting grass covered snow with this event versus the D5/D6 storm.

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When I was living in Ann Arbor 4 years ago, DTX issued a very rare Lake Effect Snow Advisory for Washtenaw and Livingston Counties. They were honking the event for days and it looked great on the models right up until the event. What happened? A trace to half inch at best.

It's extremely difficult to forecast LES for SE Mich that's Lake Michigan induced. So many wrenches into the equation that pinpointing an exact spot is impossible. I don't know how many times I've heard the blanket, "between I-94 and I-69 corridor" phrase from DTX, but really, that's the best you can do.

Hmmm..?? 06-07? Sounds like the event i mentioned earlier that gave me my first LES warning here. I know it made it to Jackson but unsure/forget what happened further east?

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FYI (and FWIW) for the folks in Metro Detroit, assuming temps in the upper teens and a general QPF swath of .10" to .25" on all the models, that works out to be 2-4"/3-5" of snow.

I'm going to remain cautiously optimistic with this one also...I never recalled seeing more than 2" from LE, but it should be interesting to see what may occur. At least these bands can make for a quick dusting in a matter of minutes.

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