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HoarfrostHubb

Beggars can’t be Choosers strung out mess Jan 8/9

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It was very difficult to guesstimate what we received, what with the wind.  I was going to go with 5" and lucky guess according to totals Jeff had posted. After raining all morning yesterday, I never would've guessed it'd turn out to be such a memorable event.  I know it was only 5", but the circumstances were pretty amazing.  We were so wet here by noon and the temp was still well in the mid 30's, I thought there was no way we'd even achieve a dusting. 

At 4 pm this afternoon I had to drive the 15 miles to pick up the kid from school.  It was a spectacular and sometimes scary ride when the wind kicked up and blew the snow off the trees across the road.  Sometimes an instant whiteout.  I'm still pretty amazed by it all.

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My CoCoRaHS totals don't reflect storm totals.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong.  Measured 1.5" on both 1/8 & 1/9 after it stopped snowing each day.  My CoCoRaHS reports for 1/7 was 1", 1/8 was .2", and 1/9 was .2" (as that was all that was left when I made my morning observation.  I did not wipe my board.) So that PNS will show me at 1.4" when in reality my storm total was 3".

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37 minutes ago, tunafish said:

My CoCoRaHS totals don't reflect storm totals.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong.  Measured 1.5" on both 1/8 & 1/9 after it stopped snowing each day.  My CoCoRaHS reports for 1/7 was 1", 1/8 was .2", and 1/9 was .2" (as that was all that was left when I made my morning observation.  I did not wipe my board.) So that PNS will show me at 1.4" when in reality my storm total was 3".

I'm not sure what the criteria guidelines are for CoCoRaHS reporting, I'm on the spotter network,  But probably, Steve (Ginx snewx) Tom (Tamarack) or Brian (Dendrite) can help out here.

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45 minutes ago, tunafish said:

My CoCoRaHS totals don't reflect storm totals.  Maybe I'm doing it wrong.  Measured 1.5" on both 1/8 & 1/9 after it stopped snowing each day.  My CoCoRaHS reports for 1/7 was 1", 1/8 was .2", and 1/9 was .2" (as that was all that was left when I made my morning observation.  I did not wipe my board.) So that PNS will show me at 1.4" when in reality my storm total was 3".

When did you measure the 1.5" each day. Are you saying you measured 1.5 at night on 1/8  and 1/9 and then it sublimated down to .2 each morning when you measured?

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9 minutes ago, dryslot said:

I'm not sure what the criteria guidelines are for CoCoRaHS reporting, I'm on the spotter network,  But probably, Steve (Ginx snewx) Tom (Tamarack) or Brian (Dendrite) can help out here.

Yeah I brought it up last week and those guys kindly replied.  Basically said to take the once daily morning observation on CoCoRaHS as-is, compaction/melting and all.

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Just now, tunafish said:

Yeah I brought it up last week and those guys kindly replied.  Basically said to take the once daily morning observation so CoCoRaHS as-is, compaction/melting and all.

My guess is then you make a once daily like 6 or 7 am report time?

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6 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

When did you measure the 1.5" each day. Are you saying you measured 1.5 at night on 1/8  and 1/9 and then it sublimated down to .2 each morning when you measured?

Essentially, yes.  I measured for my event total after snow stopped (or flipped to rain).  It was mid-late morning on both days.  So by 6AM the next day, it had melted down to .2.  Fine for CoCoRaHS,  misleading for the PNS that picks up my CoCoRaHS and reports it as an event total.

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Just now, dryslot said:

My guess is then you make a once daily like 6 or 7 am report time?

Correct, for CoCoRaHS.  If it's snowing and stops at 11AM, I take a measurement then, but dont report that to CoCoRaHS.  That measurement is for my season total on wkevin and if I report via social media

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1 minute ago, tunafish said:

Correct, for CoCoRaHS.  If it's snowing and stops at 11AM, I take a measurement then, but dont report that to CoCoRaHS.  That measurement is for my season total on wkevin and if I report via social media

Hmm, In that case you can lose a lot from compaction, Melt or sublimation over that period depending on start and stop times for storm systems.

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Just now, tunafish said:

Essentially, yes.  I measured for my event total after snow stopped (or flipped to rsin).  It was mid-late morning on both days.  So by 6AM the next day, it had melted down to .2.  Fine for CoCoRaHS,  misleading for the PNS that picks up my CoCoRaHS and reports it as an event total.

Actually if you are home and can do it---you should measure the 1.5" before it flipped to rain mid morning and note the 1.5" and LE, then report that as new snow the next morning. So new snow would be 1.5 to cocorahs with the snow LE.  Now if you not home and couldn't measure the 1.5" and then it rained and it was .2" when you got home, then you would report .2"

From Cocorahs

One of the difficulties with accurate and consistent snowfall measurement is related to the melting, settling, or evaporation of snow before you have a chance to measure it (especially in the Fall and Spring). Please try to do a measurement as close in time to when the storm ends as possible. Don't wait until 7AM if the snow ended the previous day. During long-duration snowfalls, you may choose to measure and clear the snowboard every six hours. The total snowfall would then be the summation of the different measurements

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1 minute ago, dryslot said:

Hmm, In that case you can lose a lot from compaction, Melt or sublimation over that period depending on start and stop times for storm systems.

Right, your not supposed to do it that way if you can help it.  Seems like he was home and able to measure...so should have reported 1.5"

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9 minutes ago, dryslot said:

Hmm, In that case you can lose a lot from compaction, Melt or sublimation over that period depending on start and stop times for storm systems.

For sure.  That's my concern with the PNS picking up my CoCoRaHS.   Doesn't reflect my true storm totals.

 

6 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Right, your not supposed to do it that way if you can help it.  Seems like he was home and able to measure...so should have reported 1.5"

You're correct.  I'm almost always available to measure as I work around the corner from home and have the flexibility to step out.

 

That info you posted is super helpful, thank you!  My first winter reporting through CoCoRaHS. 

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2 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Right, your not supposed to do it that way if you can help it.  Seems like he was home and able to measure...so should have reported 1.5"

You and i are posting at the same time and i'm missing your post........lol, But i see the criteria you just posted and that's within reason.

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I try to report every 6 hrs, Clear the board on that interval and report to the WFO, Or when the storm ends, I'm also reporting to local TV affiliates so have to get them totals before they go live with their reports.

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19 minutes ago, tunafish said:

For sure.  That's my concern with the PNS picking up my CoCoRaHS.   Doesn't reflect my true storm totals.

 

You're correct.  I'm almost always available to measure as I work around the corner from home and have the flexibility to step out.

 

That info you posted is super helpful, thank you!  My first winter reporting through CoCoRaHS. 

No problem. You would definitely lose a good amount of snow(data and reporting wise)always waiting to 7am like Dryslot said.

Nice that your able to go measure easily.

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Event totals: 21.8” Snow/1.61” L.E.

 

Details from the 11:00 P.M. Waterbury observations:

New Snow: 1.8 inches

New Liquid: 0.05 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 36.0

Snow Density: 2.8% H2O

Temperature: 13.5 F

Sky:  Light Snow (1 to 10 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 26.0 inches

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43 minutes ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Actually if you are home and can do it---you should measure the 1.5" before it flipped to rain mid morning and note the 1.5" and LE, then report that as new snow the next morning. So new snow would be 1.5 to cocorahs with the snow LE.  Now if you not home and couldn't measure the 1.5" and then it rained and it was .2" when you got home, then you would report .2"

From Cocorahs

One of the difficulties with accurate and consistent snowfall measurement is related to the melting, settling, or evaporation of snow before you have a chance to measure it (especially in the Fall and Spring). Please try to do a measurement as close in time to when the storm ends as possible. Don't wait until 7AM if the snow ended the previous day. During long-duration snowfalls, you may choose to measure and clear the snowboard every six hours. The total snowfall would then be the summation of the different measurements

Backedge is right on here, as are the others in the conversation.  You want to try to catch those “maximum” accumulations before any melting, and that’s what you report to CoCoRaHS.  The peak of depth indicates what really happened and is a representation of the event, but if you don’t report that, it’s as if it never really happened.  Since I can’t always be home due to work, travel, etc., that’s why I specifically set up my webcam with a close-in zoom on a measurement stick.  I can check in on that to know if there was any melting, settling, or whatever.  Here’s a shot from my webcam today when I was monitoring this storm while at work:

10JAN19A.jpg

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5 hours ago, dryslot said:

I try to report every 6 hrs, Clear the board on that interval and report to the WFO, Or when the storm ends, I'm also reporting to local TV affiliates so have to get them totals before they go live with their reports.

Thanks, yeah I've been doing that as well although I think only one, maybe two events have gone longer than 6 hours this season lol

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Thanks, yeah I've been doing that as well although I think only one, maybe two events have gone longer than 6 hours this season lol


Hasn’t been very difficult so far as we haven’t had many events and none I would consider significant.

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Event totals: 22.3” Snow/1.63” L.E.

 

Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

New Snow: 0.5 inches

New Liquid: 0.02 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 25.0

Snow Density: 4.0% H2O

Temperature: 8.8 F

Sky:  Light Snow (1 to 3 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 25.0 inches

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1 hour ago, J.Spin said:

Event totals: 22.3” Snow/1.63” L.E.

 

Details from the 6:00 A.M. Waterbury observations:

New Snow: 0.5 inches

New Liquid: 0.02 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 25.0

Snow Density: 4.0% H2O

Temperature: 8.8 F

Sky:  Light Snow (1 to 3 mm flakes)

Snow at the stake: 25.0 inches

Nice event J up there, You guys have been raking.

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45 minutes ago, dryslot said:

Nice event J up there, You guys have been raking.

Yeah, this past storm was certainly a good extra boost.  It’s actually been a while since we’ve had a decent January, but this one is doing well thus far - we’re only a third of the way through the month and this January already has seen more snowfall that any of the previous seven Januarys had in total.  We’re not quite at 2007-2008 or 2008-2009 pace overall, but with this latest event this season seems like it wants to try to at least give them a run for their money.

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11 hours ago, backedgeapproaching said:

Actually if you are home and can do it---you should measure the 1.5" before it flipped to rain mid morning and note the 1.5" and LE, then report that as new snow the next morning. So new snow would be 1.5 to cocorahs with the snow LE.  Now if you not home and couldn't measure the 1.5" and then it rained and it was .2" when you got home, then you would report .2"

From Cocorahs

One of the difficulties with accurate and consistent snowfall measurement is related to the melting, settling, or evaporation of snow before you have a chance to measure it (especially in the Fall and Spring). Please try to do a measurement as close in time to when the storm ends as possible. Don't wait until 7AM if the snow ended the previous day. During long-duration snowfalls, you may choose to measure and clear the snowboard every six hours. The total snowfall would then be the summation of the different measurements

That's the way to measure how much snow actually fell.  However, if you enter the depth on the ground, that's as it stands at observation time.  A crazy scenario- bare ground on, say, Dec. 10 at 7 AM.  Later that morning a quick 2" falls, but by sunset it's gone.  Then 3" new is on the board at the 7 AM obs time on 12/11.  One would report 5" snowfall but 3" depth.  If one captured LE for both the 2" and the 3", the sum would be entered.  If it were me and I was unable to get the 2" LE but had the 3" LE, I'd not report LE at all.

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2 hours ago, tamarack said:

That's the way to measure how much snow actually fell.  However, if you enter the depth on the ground, that's as it stands at observation time.  A crazy scenario- bare ground on, say, Dec. 10 at 7 AM.  Later that morning a quick 2" falls, but by sunset it's gone.  Then 3" new is on the board at the 7 AM obs time on 12/11.  One would report 5" snowfall but 3" depth.  If one captured LE for both the 2" and the 3", the sum would be entered.  If it were me and I was unable to get the 2" LE but had the 3" LE, I'd not report LE at all.

Right, its possible to get say 3" new snow and then it rains and at 7am you have 3" new and 0" depth.

Regarding the bolded, I would only report the LE if I added a note in the observations notes section saying i only got the LE for 3" of the 5". 

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7 hours ago, J.Spin said:

Yeah, this past storm was certainly a good extra boost.  It’s actually been a while since we’ve had a decent January, but this one is doing well thus far - we’re only a third of the way through the month and this January already has seen more snowfall that any of the previous seven Januarys had in total.  We’re not quite at 2007-2008 or 2008-2009 pace overall, but with this latest event this season seems like it wants to try to at least give them a run for their money.

This added a good shot of QPF to the mountain... despite some great fluff during the second half, the high winds packed it a bit.  I bet the mountain added a good 1.75-2.0" of liquid equivalent to the snowpack.

As of Tuesday before the storm I had 26" and 6.5" of water at the 1,500ft elevation.  Be interesting to see the total liquid in the pack during the next survey.  

That's a healthy refresher to finally get us off that ice crust from the cutters during the holidays.

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20 minutes ago, powderfreak said:

This added a good shot of QPF to the mountain... despite some great fluff during the second half, the high winds packed it a bit.  I bet the mountain added a good 1.75-2.0" of liquid equivalent to the snowpack.

As of Tuesday before the storm I had 26" and 6.5" of water at the 1,500ft elevation.  Be interesting to see the total liquid in the pack during the next survey.  

That's a healthy refresher to finally get us off that ice crust from the cutters during the holidays.

26” there before? Wow. 

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1 hour ago, powderfreak said:

This added a good shot of QPF to the mountain... despite some great fluff during the second half, the high winds packed it a bit.  I bet the mountain added a good 1.75-2.0" of liquid equivalent to the snowpack.

As of Tuesday before the storm I had 26" and 6.5" of water at the 1,500ft elevation.  Be interesting to see the total liquid in the pack during the next survey.  

That's a healthy refresher to finally get us off that ice crust from the cutters during the holidays.

 That ice is the real problem, it’s like hitting cement. Happy that the mountains are back in good condition even if I’m not partaking for a while. The entire spine did well with this event. 

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1 hour ago, CoastalWx said:

26” there before? Wow. 

The snow banks up at the resort look like what 36-40" on the ground would look like now.  Totally different world up there in that pocket.  Great CAD on the 1,500ft bench on the east slope so the snow never melts and it gets a lot of precip.  Such a weenie location the base area of the ski resort is.

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Event totals: 22.5” Snow/1.64” L.E.

 

The clouds have just about cleared out here now and the snow has stopped, so that closes the books on this storm and the numbers above represent the final storm totals.  In terms of snowfall, this storm has now taken the top spot for this season at our location, beating out Winter Storm Bruce from the end of November.

 

Details from the 6:00 P.M. Waterbury observations:

New Snow: 0.2 inches

New Liquid: 0.01 inches

Snow/Water Ratio: 20.0

Snow Density: 5.0% H2O

Temperature: -1.1 F

Sky:  Mostly Clear

Snow at the stake: 24.0 inches

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