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Winter Speculation 17/18 -December Thread


AMZ8990

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There's a couple nice clippers shown on the GFS,who knows if it will be right,right now,until the trough passes east of us we should at least see some impluses by the looks migrating though the Valley until the trough passes and we see a warm up,hope the GFS IS RIGHT,this is Sat evening into Sunday morning next week

AccuWeather com® Professional   Forecast Models.png

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The 00z GFS shows basically the exact set up it was showing last month with cutters. Highs to the N and storms cutting straight towards them. Of course it didn't remotely happen that way and was instead suppression city. Not shocking to see it fold straight to the Euro solution but still a long way off and not particularly believable.  

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13 minutes ago, John1122 said:

The 00z GFS shows basically the exact set up it was showing last month with cutters. Highs to the N and storms cutting straight towards them. Of course it didn't remotely happen that way and was instead suppression city. Not shocking to see it fold straight to the Euro solution but still a long way off and not particularly believable.  

Euro is 6 hrs slower but a like look,not sure who will be right

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4 minutes ago, John1122 said:

Last night the Euro went from an apps runner to a cutter.  The GFS is following it big time this year but about 24 hours later than the Euro makes its shifts. We'll have a better idea on next weekend after Monday. 

We're only talking about a clipper system by the look.It's sad to me we have to discuss this :(

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24 minutes ago, jaxjagman said:

We're only talking about a clipper system by the look.It's sad to me we have to discuss this :(

We'll see if it sticks to the west side of the apps with the Friday system. East of the Apps and the Western 2/3rd of the forum might have a big winter storm. Trends towards cutters has been really rare this year and I bet that one ends up on the east side of the mountains like the rest of the systems lately.

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0z EPS show very good slp locations for the valley.  Until inside of d5, this storm is going to jump all over the place.  The trends on the 0z EPS good.  No guarantees....but a slp sliding across MS, AL, GA, and the up the east side of the Apps.  Some surface reflection does try for the eastern valley.  It had been a distinct cutter west of the Apps.  Looks like the GFS run a couple of nights ago which was a far inland runner.

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The 12 GFS op is not encouraging....but need to wait this one out.  The models are varying from run to run w the departing WAR and w energy diving in from the back.  Trends today are west of the Apps for the CMC and GFS both.  The UKMET this morning took the low road and the EPS was not much different.  At this range, going to lean on the ensembles. 

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The main reason that we see system 2 cut is that the ridge in front is taking its time moving out and the slp is running smack into it.  Not a ton of moving parts.  Just need a seam in between the two highs for the storm to develop which there is.   The CMC had nothing last night and now cut a well defined slp west of the Apps.  Trends on the ensembles are important, especially the EPS.  Last night's EPS looked decent...we will see where it goes this afternoon.  Will definitely be watching the UKMET and EPS this afternoon.  

As for the LR, no changes w my thinking really.  Big warmup arriving around Jan 17-20.  The next cold shot after next weekend's storm is now being modeled as stronger...but after that, the model ensembles at 500 have been very consistent w the trough going into the West. Now, some of the EPS control runs(not the mean...very warm) do hint at breaking down the western trough quickly.  I have read some folks who think 7-10 days for the thaw.  I lean 2-3 weeks at a minimum.  I still like the Jan 20-Feb 5 time frame.   I don't use the cfs2 as I just rarely see it as consistent or dependable.  The EPS/Weeklies have been very accurate this winter considering the range...I will ride that horse until it shows me otherwise.  The Cansips whiffed on December.  The CFS2 will show multiple solutions...a broken clock is right twice a day type deal.  The operationals have really been pretty average at best this winter...sometimes just bad.  So, until the system is inside of 120...I just use the operationals for trends or just storm signals at range.  If I wanted...I could probably dig a bit and find a scenario where the thaw is 5-10 days...but most LR model ensembles are not showing the thaw that short.

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I wonder if the progressive bias of the GFS is causing it to move into the retreating hp too quickly and causing it to cut?  Or maybe the slower bias of the Euro is letting the hp to retreat more?  Anyway...If I was going to make a cone of possibility like a hurricane cone.  Probably would start the cone in Louisiana.  One side of the cone would be to Charlotte.  The other would be to Nashville.  Most of the runs are between those two spots.  FWIW, if I lived in middle or west TN the 12z UKMET looked decent.  Those 24 hour increments hide the story though.

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GFS drops some ice storm warning level freezing rain totals on the latest run. Especially the areas adjacent to the east side of the plateau.  It's backed up to some extent by the hi-res NAM which dollops some .50+ totals around the area. RGEM still widespread with .1-.15 amounts as well. I expect MRX to expand the WWA a tier of counties eastward by evening.

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1 hour ago, Carvers Gap said:

I wonder if the progressive bias of the GFS is causing it to move into the retreating hp too quickly and causing it to cut?  Or maybe the slower bias of the Euro is letting the hp to retreat more?  Anyway...If I was going to make a cone of possibility like a hurricane cone.  Probably would start the cone in Louisiana.  One side of the cone would be to Charlotte.  The other would be to Nashville.  Most of the runs are between those two spots.  FWIW, if I lived in middle or west TN the 12z UKMET looked decent.  Those 24 hour increments hide the story though.

Your right Carver, not a bad look at all!  With The way things go in west Tn it would not surprise me if it snowed right after 2-3 days of temps in the 60's.

IMG_0332.GIF

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1 hour ago, John1122 said:
GFS drops some ice storm warning level freezing rain totals on the latest run. Especially the areas adjacent to the east side of the plateau.  It's backed up to some extent by the hi-res NAM which dollops some .50+ totals around the area. RGEM still widespread with .1-.15 amounts as well. I expect MRX to expand the WWA a tier of counties eastward by evening.

Wouldn't be surprised by that either. Also noticing that looks like Imby is going to fall short of forecast highs today also. Forecast high of 38, still sitting 32 with west wind, not southerly at what should be about daily max sun radiation.  Classic CAD against the eastern Cumberland Escarpment.

 

Temps.PNG

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6 minutes ago, bearman said:

It is amusing but seeing the ground as cold as it is with any moisture and temps that have tended lower than forecast I think it is also irresponsible.  Maybe they just are a little late because they have a lot to do.

 

And appears they just filled the hole.  All of MRX under WWA now.

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