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Winter 2016-2017 Medium/Long Range Discussion


Hoosier

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15 minutes ago, HillsdaleMIWeather said:

0Z GFS came in stronger. Still looking interesting! Now to see the GEM and Euro!

Edit: GEM's pretty weak sauce. 

GEM is still pretty significant...the fact that it has a storm is really what matters at this point.  Also has some light snow this weekend with the first storm.

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4 minutes ago, cyclone77 said:

Yep, has a loli of 62mph sustained, gusting to 88mph northwest of Omaha.  Can't remember seeing winds that strong at the surface on any model for a non-tropical system.

I'd be excited but probably a little scared if something like that was progged around here. :lol:

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Easy come easy go.  This is what happens when the only thing to watch continues to remain 8+ days out.  The signal for the strong arctic intrusion seems to be pretty consistent by all models later next week, so hopefully we can spin up something in that time frame as models have sometimes indicated.

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The GRR NWS is now looking at a potential pattern change that several members have been talking about for some time now.  The is from today’s discussion

   
WEEK TWO  
(WEDNESDAY THROUGH TUESDAY)  
  
A CHANGE TOWARD A MORE PERSISTENTLY COLDER THAN NORMAL  
TEMPERATURES IS EXPECTED DURING THIS TIME FRAME. THIS PATTERN  
CHANGE SHOULD LAST INTO THE NEW YEAR.  
  
THE MOSTLY WARMER THAN NORMAL TEMPERATURES WE HAVE BEEN SEEING  
OVER SOUTHWEST MICHIGAN SINCE LAST SEPTEMBER (2015) IS ABOUT TO  
COME TO AN END. THIS CHANGE HAS BEEN CONSISTENTLY SHOWN BY THE  
GFS AND ECMWF OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS AND IN FACT THE LATEST LONG  
RANGE ECMWF (28TH OF NOVEMBER) SHOWS THE COLDER TEMPERATURES  
(HIGHS BELOW FREEZING) CONTINUING INTO MID JANUARY. PART OF THE  
REASON FOR THIS CHANGE IS THE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES IN THE SEA  
SURFACE TEMPERATURE ANOMALIES OVER THE NORTHERN PACIFIC OCEAN. FOR  
THE MOST PART MOST OF THE NORTHERN PACIFIC OCEAN, EVEN NORTH TO  
ALASKA HAS BEEN WARMER THAN NORMAL THROUGH THE SUMMER INTO MID  
FALL. SINCE OCTOBER, MOST OF NORTHERN ASIA HAS BEEN 10 TO 20  
DEGREES BELOW NORMAL WITH UNUSABLY LARGE AMOUNTS SNOW COVER, WHICH  
AS PERSISTED THROUGH NOVEMBER. THAT COLD AIR OVER NORTHERN ASIA  
HAS RESULTED IN A SIGNIFICANT COOLING OVER THE NORTH PACIFIC OCEAN  
NORTH OF 35N, FROM THE ASIAN COAST NEARLY TO THE WEST COST OF  
NORTH AMERICA. THIS COOLING COUPLED WITH THE DEVELOPING WEAK LA  
NINA WILL RESULT THE UPPER LEVEL WAVE PATTERN CHANGE THAT WILL  
FAVOR A TROUGH OVER EASTERN NORTH AMERICA FROM MID DECEMBER INTO  
AT LEAST EARLY JANUARY (AS SEEN ON THE ECMWF ENSEMBLE MEAN  
FORECAST FOR 500 HEIGHT AND 850 TEMPERATURES). IT IS THAT PATTERN  
CHANGE THAT WILL BRING US THE COLDER THAN NORMAL TEMPERATURES.  
  
BOTH MODELS HAVE SUGGESTED A SIGNIFICANT STORM EVENT DURING THE  
LATE NEXT WEEK ( THU- FRI). IT IS WAY TO EARLY TO SUGGEST IMPACTS  
FROM THIS STORM BUT IT IS TYPICAL TO HAVE A MAJOR STORM AHEAD OF A  
MAJOR UPPER LEVEL WAVE PATTERN CHANGE. IT WOULD SEEM TO ME IF THIS  
COLDER THAN NORMAL PATTERN CHANGE DOES OCCUR WE WILL BE SEEING  
LAKEEFFECT SNOWS ONCE THE COLD AIR ARRIVES. THE ECMWF ENSEMBLE  
MEAN HAS HIGHS BELOW FREEZING STARTING ON THE THURSDAY AND  
CONTINUING THROUGH THE FOLLOWING WEDNESDAY.  
  
WE WILL CONTINUE TO WATCH TO SEE HOW THIS PATTERN CHANGE EVOLVES  
OVER THE NEXT WEEK OR SO.  

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Not really worth much discussion but the GFS is advertising one of those scenarios where the cold air crashes in quickly as the low occludes.  Sometimes it can snow pretty good for an hour or two as the cold air catches up to the departing precip, offering small consolation for those missing out on the main show.  

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Radical changes continue on the GFS.  First, the initial piece of energy moving up from Texas through the Ohio Valley is more robust on the 00z run.  Second, this run has suddenly added a big upper low over southern Canada where there was nothing the previous two runs today.  The main system now ejects eastward, weak and flat compared to previous runs.

00z UK has no upper low over southern Manitoba, so it would likely turn left and hit areas to the nw.

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31 minutes ago, Maxim said:

lol, the GEM is a useless model. I think even JMA is outscoring it now.

I barely look at the GEM anymore.  Seems to always need to play catch-up to the other globals.  

Models continue to be all over the place with the main system later next week, but at least the major arctic push continues to be relatively consistent.  Should definitely be an opportunity to spin up something nice along it's leading edge, but the timing of the various shortwaves traversing the advancing baroclinic zone will take some time for the guidance to nail down.  

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1 hour ago, NWLinnCountyIA said:

GEM doesn't make any sense to me, it moves north thru Iowa into Minnesota, okay.. fine, then it sags SE while deepening into IL? I thought that was strange.

You can sort of see why that happens by looking at 500 mb.  There's a lot of energy rounding the base of the trough so as the original surface low occludes, a new one rapidly develops farther southeast.  

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I've been skimming around the different forums and reading from other forecasters that the brutal cold in Alaska and W.Canada means katy-bar-the-door for not only the central states, but us folks further east.   Really???

Maybe a met or 2 can chime in here but in my many weenie years of following weather, (and admittedly anecdotal), a brutal cold Alaska and W.Canada usually translates into winter purgatory for us folks from the OV on east...if not from the miss river on east.  

Am I wrong?  

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