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Frontogenesis/Baroclinic zone induced snows


snowstormcanuck

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All 12z guidance (except the NAM) shifted slightly north with the axis of snowfall. Now Toronto's on the southern fringe of the jackpot zone. Pattern still favours a slight southward correction so I'm not too concerned.

I'm not sure about this anymore. Almost ready to punt this for our area.

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All 12z guidance (except the NAM) shifted slightly north with the axis of snowfall. Now Toronto's on the southern fringe of the jackpot zone. Pattern still favours a slight southward correction so I'm not too concerned.

The problem is the Friday night/Sat wave coming in weaker to the point where it doesn't push the boundary back to the SW.  This allows the 0C 850s to move well into southern MI which is just NFG.  The stronger wave later Sunday looks OK but still this is all depending on how things go the through Saturday.  I want to keep that 0C 850 to my SW and I will take my chances from there!

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The problem is the Friday night/Sat wave coming in weaker to the point where it doesn't push the boundary back to the SW.  This allows the 0C 850s to move well into southern MI which is just NFG.  The stronger wave later Sunday looks OK but still this is all depending on how things go the through Saturday.  I want to keep that 0C 850 to my SW and I will take my chances from there!

 

Waiting for the EURO freebies to come out but it looks like it may have trended wetter with the final wave (Sunday aft-Sunday night). Going to be hard to get bullseyed on all three.

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It's a complex situation with three different waves. The new 12z Euro puts more emphasis on the 3rd wave late Sunday into Monday.

Yes and it's that third wave that really does the damage. Total snowfall from all 3 waves: 7-10'' from wxbell maps.

 

Oh and BTW Mike, yes I overreacted. I will try to be a better poster I promise.

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Yes and it's that third wave that really does the damage. Total snowfall from all 3 waves: 7-10'' from wxbell maps.

 

Oh and BTW Mike, yes I overreacted. I will try to be a better poster I promise.

 

Good. Because you realize you were considering punting when three posts about you Bo posted an up-to-date map which showed a foot of snow right over your head.

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Yes and it's that third wave that really does the damage. Total snowfall from all 3 waves: 7-10'' from wxbell maps.

 

Oh and BTW Mike, yes I overreacted. I will try to be a better poster I promise.

Only thing most want  ...  take the cancel storm and I hate this crap posts to the Banter thread.  Great place to overreact all you want!!!

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Waiting for the EURO freebies to come out but it looks like it may have trended wetter with the final wave (Sunday aft-Sunday night). Going to be hard to get bullseyed on all three.

Actually I am/was not expecting to get bullseyed at all.  :lol:   Just want to keep that 0C line to my south and add some snow :snowwindow: on top of my snow cover.  Yesterday here was great!

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The problem is the Friday night/Sat wave coming in weaker to the point where it doesn't push the boundary back to the SW. This allows the 0C 850s to move well into southern MI which is just NFG. The stronger wave later Sunday looks OK but still this is all depending on how things go the through Saturday. I want to keep that 0C 850 to my SW and I will take my chances from there!

It looks like a mixed bag here... ending as snow.

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I had been thinking the models were too dry with almost no precip north of the main low pressure sunday into monday, it's nice to see the 12z Euro and GFS starting to put some precip there where you would think it should be. It's too bad the first couple waves are going way north as it looks like now though.

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Waiting for the EURO freebies to come out but it looks like it may have trended wetter with the final wave (Sunday aft-Sunday night). Going to be hard to get bullseyed on all three.

Should be interesting to see how the lake responds to a slightly further north jog. OT a bit but I'm not sure whats happened to the Southern Ontario posters this winter. Its been an average winter and I would swear from reading comments that we are in a historically bad winter. Sorry about the rant but we live in Southern Ontario and people here should be accustomed to winters that fluctuate. 

 

Edit. Maybe I'm just getting too old to get upset if I get 6 inches instead of 10 inches. 

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APX not buying the insanely far north SREFs, but does mention that southern gradient of snow could be tighter than currently progged:

 

RELATIVE BREAK IN THE ACTION SATURDAY MORNING GIVES WAY TO WHAT
CONTINUES TO LOOK LIKE A RESPECTABLE SNOW EVENT LATER SATURDAY
THROUGH SATURDAY NIGHT. UPPER JET FORCING/MID LEVEL SUPPORT
COLLOCATING WITH GOOD/EXCELLENT LOW LEVEL FGEN...ALL WORKING IN
CONCERT WITH SURGE OF DEEPER MOISTURE (PWATS UP AND OVER HALF AN
INCH...WELL ABOVE CLIMATE NORMS) SHOULD DO THE TRICK. KINDA ENVISION
AN EXPANDING AREA OF LIGHT SNOW...WITH EMBEDDED FGEN RESPONSE AND
HINTS OF ELEVATED INSTABILITY DRIVING A HEAVIER SNOW PRODUCING
BAND(S). ABOVE SURE OFFERS PLENTY OF INSIGHT WITH REGARDS TO SNOW
POTENTIAL...AND ONE SIMPLY GUIDANCE WILL CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE WITH
GIVEN HIGHLY BANDED SNOW POTENTIAL. COULD EASILY SEE "HEADLINE
WORTHY" SNOW AMOUNTS...PERHAPS IN EXCESS OF A HALF FOOT IF BANDS
REMAINS STEADY-STATE AND NON-TRANSIENT. NOW...SIMPLY CANNOT ANSWER
PRECISELY WHERE THIS HEAVIER SNOW AXIS WILL SET-UP. DPROG/DTS OF ALL
AVAILABLE 12Z DETERMINISTIC GUIDANCE...ALONG WITH A MAJORITY OF
LOWER RES ENSEMBLES...CONTINUES TO TARGET AREAS ALONG AND NORTH OF
THE M-32 CORRIDOR. MOST DISCONCERTING...AT LEAST FROM A FORECASTERS
PERSPECTIVE...IS STEADFAST SREF PROGS SHOWING A MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE
WARM SURGE AND...AS SUCH...ALL DEEP LAYER DYNAMICS/FGEN SETTING UP
WELL TO OUR NORTH ACROSS ONTARIO! REALLY NOT BUYING THIS
IDEA...WHICH HAS VIRTUALLY NO SUPPORT FROM ANY OTHER PROGS. TO
FURTHER COMPLICATE PLACEMENT MATTERS...HEAVIER AXIS OF SNOW COULD BE
VERY NARROW...WITH SUBSIDENCE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF BETTER BANDING
REALLY LIMITING SNOW ACCUMULATION POTENTIAL. GIVEN UNCERTAINTIES...
WHICH UNFORTUNATELY MAY NOT BE RESOLVED UNTIL THE EVENT IS ACTUALLY
UNFOLDING...WILL CONTINUE TO BROAD BRUSH HIGHER POPS AND SNOW
ACCUMULATIONS (A SIMPLE 2 TO 5 INCHES WILL DO FOR NOW). NO DOUBT
THIS EVENT WILL REMAIN FODDER FOR OUR LATEST HAZARDOUS WEATHER
PRODUCTS.

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18z GFS

 

USA_ASNOWIPER_sfc_096.gif

Big uptick from the 0.5" of QPF it had at 12z. Now all 3 major models(GFS/EC/UKM) have 20-30cm for the GTA. Still concerned about a north shift given some movement in that direction from the OPs/ENS members though synoptically it would make sense that it would trend S if anything.

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APX not buying the insanely far north SREFs, but does mention that southern gradient of snow could be tighter than currently progged:

RELATIVE BREAK IN THE ACTION SATURDAY MORNING GIVES WAY TO WHAT

CONTINUES TO LOOK LIKE A RESPECTABLE SNOW EVENT LATER SATURDAY

THROUGH SATURDAY NIGHT. UPPER JET FORCING/MID LEVEL SUPPORT

COLLOCATING WITH GOOD/EXCELLENT LOW LEVEL FGEN...ALL WORKING IN

CONCERT WITH SURGE OF DEEPER MOISTURE (PWATS UP AND OVER HALF AN

INCH...WELL ABOVE CLIMATE NORMS) SHOULD DO THE TRICK. KINDA ENVISION

AN EXPANDING AREA OF LIGHT SNOW...WITH EMBEDDED FGEN RESPONSE AND

HINTS OF ELEVATED INSTABILITY DRIVING A HEAVIER SNOW PRODUCING

BAND(S). ABOVE SURE OFFERS PLENTY OF INSIGHT WITH REGARDS TO SNOW

POTENTIAL...AND ONE SIMPLY GUIDANCE WILL CONTINUE TO STRUGGLE WITH

GIVEN HIGHLY BANDED SNOW POTENTIAL. COULD EASILY SEE "HEADLINE

WORTHY" SNOW AMOUNTS...PERHAPS IN EXCESS OF A HALF FOOT IF BANDS

REMAINS STEADY-STATE AND NON-TRANSIENT. NOW...SIMPLY CANNOT ANSWER

PRECISELY WHERE THIS HEAVIER SNOW AXIS WILL SET-UP. DPROG/DTS OF ALL

AVAILABLE 12Z DETERMINISTIC GUIDANCE...ALONG WITH A MAJORITY OF

LOWER RES ENSEMBLES...CONTINUES TO TARGET AREAS ALONG AND NORTH OF

THE M-32 CORRIDOR. MOST DISCONCERTING...AT LEAST FROM A FORECASTERS

PERSPECTIVE...IS STEADFAST SREF PROGS SHOWING A MUCH MORE AGGRESSIVE

WARM SURGE AND...AS SUCH...ALL DEEP LAYER DYNAMICS/FGEN SETTING UP

WELL TO OUR NORTH ACROSS ONTARIO! REALLY NOT BUYING THIS

IDEA...WHICH HAS VIRTUALLY NO SUPPORT FROM ANY OTHER PROGS. TO

FURTHER COMPLICATE PLACEMENT MATTERS...HEAVIER AXIS OF SNOW COULD BE

VERY NARROW...WITH SUBSIDENCE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF BETTER BANDING

REALLY LIMITING SNOW ACCUMULATION POTENTIAL. GIVEN UNCERTAINTIES...

WHICH UNFORTUNATELY MAY NOT BE RESOLVED UNTIL THE EVENT IS ACTUALLY

UNFOLDING...WILL CONTINUE TO BROAD BRUSH HIGHER POPS AND SNOW

ACCUMULATIONS (A SIMPLE 2 TO 5 INCHES WILL DO FOR NOW). NO DOUBT

THIS EVENT WILL REMAIN FODDER FOR OUR LATEST HAZARDOUS WEATHER

PRODUCTS.

What office is apx? Alpena?

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