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December-winter is finally here!


weathafella

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From weatherfella: 2004esque. November snow, mild December with snow and enough cold to keep the mean low enough, very mid first part of January and off to the races mid January though March.

But maybe I'm misreading :)

Sent from my iPhone

Wait....i described 2004 and gave a hypothetical pattern progression which btw included plenty of snow in December. It wasn't a read on the modeling!

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From weatherfella: 2004esque. November snow, mild December with snow and enough cold to keep the mean low enough, very mid first part of January and off to the races mid January though March.

But maybe I'm misreading :)

Sent from my iPhone

 

I think he was just rehashing Jan 2005. However, that month was snowy from start to finish. 

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Jesus. Meanwhile, the Euro puts the MJO in the COD before phase 6...that's quite the change. I feel like that alone explains the differences in the guidance. 

 

I'm not even sure I want to just speed through more than half of the phases in a two-week period like the GFS does. 

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Now you see how easily things can be misconstrued.

Ah yes! I totally see how I misread the post! I have my whole family coming from Italy for Xmas. First Xmas together in 15 years or so! Really hoping for it to be white. Of course I'm also a master weenie so I'd hope for that no matter what, but now the stakes are higher :)

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Paul Roundy's stuff seems in between too. The overall forcing should move into the western Hemi eventually, but my guess is to look at the 200mb velocity potential and not the dynamical models since those could be messed around with by whatever happens with that TC. The VP anomalies at 200mb will have a better idea for the placement of divergence and enhanced convection.

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Doug, I also wonder how and if the developing TC out in the WPAC is messing around with the fields? 12z GFS is aggressive with that.

 

 

You mean with the MJO fields? I was under the impression that the MJO pulse was being aided by a Kelvin Wave passage which helps to cause the Typhoon...does the Typhoon in turn also affect the MJO? 

 

Unless you're just talking about the Typhoon altering the N PAC pattern. 

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You mean with the MJO fields? I was under the impression that the MJO pulse was being aided by a Kelvin Wave passage which helps to cause the Typhoon...does the Typhoon in turn also affect the MJO? 

 

Unless you're just talking about the Typhoon altering the N PAC pattern. 

 

Well I mean the development of the TC. The strength and placement could have an effect on OLR and other metrics that the dynamic MJO models key on? I usually try and look at the VP anomalies to have an idea on where forcing might be. 

 

And yes, on the 12z GFS you can see that TC also tries anbd pumps up ridging in the EPAC. 

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Paul Roundy's stuff seems in between too. The overall forcing should move into the western Hemi eventually, but my guess is to look at the 200mb velocity potential and not the dynamical models since those could be messed around with by whatever happens with that TC. The VP anomalies at 200mb will have a better idea for the placement of divergence and enhanced convection.

 

Yeah, I feel like the dynamical models sometimes have too much noise in their forecasts. The VP anomalies give a better indicator as to how the MJO will affect the pattern...as long as the forcing moves into our hemisphere, that's all that really matters. 

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Yeah, I feel like the dynamical models sometimes have too much noise in their forecasts. The VP anomalies give a better indicator as to how the MJO will affect the pattern...as long as the forcing moves into our hemisphere, that's all that really matters. 

 

Yeah exactly. I am no expert on that stuff by any means, but that's how I approach it.

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Well I mean the development of the TC. The strength and placement could have an effect on OLR and other metrics that the dynamic MJO models key on? I usually try and look at the VP anomalies to have an idea on where forcing might be. 

 

And yes, on the 12z GFS you can see that TC also tries anbd pumps up ridging in the EPAC. 

 

 

Right, that definitely makes sense. That could throw a wrench into their forecasts. 

 

Also, if that Typhoon pumps enough ridging in the E PAC to link with the blocking north of AK...then the pattern will be much colder than forecast. The GFS OP partially, but not completely pulls that off. This is one reason why having that block there is so important...any wave breaking event out there could link up with that blocking and we get a huge -EPO.

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Well I mean the development of the TC. The strength and placement could have an effect on OLR and other metrics that the dynamic MJO models key on? I usually try and look at the VP anomalies to have an idea on where forcing might be. 

 

And yes, on the 12z GFS you can see that TC also tries anbd pumps up ridging in the EPAC. 

The 12z GFS actually has another low developing to the northeast of that typhoon that really enhances the EPAC ridge.

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