Tim Samaras, his son Paul and Carl Young

[anemone]

I read that a semi truck lifted up and crushed the chase vehicle. Not sure if it's true or not.

[Uncle Bobby]

I met Tim one evening at a little motel out in the boonies after a long chase day. I don't believe he knew who I was, and he was probably tired and anxious to get some post-chase work done. Despite this, I was treated like a longtime friend. As nice a guy as I have ever met. My deepest condolences to the familis and friends of all three.

 

[Quakertown needs snow]

sad news.

[Turtle]

Heard the news around noontime, and just could not believe it.  I still can't believe it.  

 

Tim and Carl were the ones that were doing their research to help better the science of severe weather forecasting and to help to better extension of warnings.  I never met either gentleman, but you just felt their altruism and passion of their work.  SO SO SO sad.  RIP to Tim, Paul and Carl.  

 

All I hope is that other chasers out there learn and heed from this horrific example that this can happen to ANYONE. 

 

--Turtle  

[Bryan Wood]

Ginger Zee reported that Tim was found buckled in, the other two were ejected. One was found a half mile away. A horrific way to die.

[Bozart]

All I hope is that other chasers out there learn and heed from this horrific example that this can happen to ANYONE.

If we can ever find out exactly how this incident happened, we might learn something we can use. Otherwise, there is nothing to learn.

 

People keep saying this incident means "it can happen to anyone," and of course it can. But not all risks or risk-takers are equal. Not all chasers move in on tornadoes at close range. Not all drop probes into the paths of tornadoes, or have any other requirement or desire to get close, for thrills or the dramatic shot or any other reason. There are still plenty of chasers who prefer to hang back, get tri-podded, document structure, and rely on long lenses for close-ups.

 

The worst most likely will happen to those who take the biggest risks, whether the risks are professionally justified or not (and Friday's events bear that out). But that isn't just anyone and everyone equally.

[Cypress]

very poor taste to post the picture (or a link to pic) jmo... but I bet his loved ones could have gone on without seeing that bit - I know it's posted elsewhere, but can't we, just for a moment, just for the sake of the deceased's loved ones or even for the sake of decency, be above the gore... it's totally unnecessary - it doesn't further the science or storm chasing one iota

 

and admins agree ?

 

"we have met the the enemy... and it is us..."

[Thunder Road]

Superstorm93,

 

"There's no sometimes crying in meteorology"

[Superstorm93]

Superstorm93,

"There's no sometimes crying in meteorology"

My signature is obviously meant in a totally different context but...

What happened with Tim is a tragedy and when I heard about it this afternoon, I actually felt great physical pain. I honestly still can't even comprehend that we lost Tim, his son, and Mr. Young all in one horrible night.

[Ground Scouring]

This is truly, almost hauntingly, gut-wrenching. At the same time, I am hard-pressed to find an appropriate condolence, for these individuals truly died for a greater good--for the betterment of atmospheric science and, indirectly, for the safety of the public, through improved warnings, forecasts, fluid equations / data, etc. Unintentional a death it was, but it was commensurate with the risks involved. Often the truest passion is the one that absorbs one's life and has the power to take it away--and to leave a reservoir of service behind. Why these three scientists had to die is irrelevant; what is relevant is their contribution.

 

And yes, the gore is utterly unnecessary, inappropriate, and misleading; for that is not the real message to be found in this bittersweet tragedy. The real message is what others have said: that this illustrates, in stark relief, the hazards that accompany even the efforts of the best, most knowledgeable, and/or most experienced meteorological scientist-observers, and which make the margin between life and death quite thin.

 

I just extend my sincerest condolences to any family members, friends, or relatives who may/may not be reading this. As for the unnamed yahoos (not necessarily the majority of chasers, and certainly not experienced scientists) who narrowly escaped that day...I wish I could express my emotions, but they would not be appropriate for print here or elsewhere--certainly not at a time like this one. I can only hope that they think about the cost of their enterprise, its greater significance and importance--to purposes of science and safety--and, most importantly, its hazards. It is not a trifling matter, not something that can be sought for a thrill.

 

One does not study tornadoes simply to defy death and to approach as closely as possible for some few seconds of "awesome" video--video that, for the most part, shows little other than darkness, debris, and terror inside a funnel--certainly nothing of meteorological value like wind speeds, atmospheric measurements, etc. Inside the core of most strong tornadoes, such meteorological instruments would most likely not survive. Simply put, there is no reason to be so close to a tornado as to risk your life and others'--certainly no meteorological rationale. You should be neither a chaser nor a meteorologist if you wish to acquire death-defying fame that fades, like a rock star, once the next YouTube sensation comes along.

 

It is suited for those individuals with a unique calling to serve others through their work, whether directly or indirectly; this includes both hard-bitten meteorologists--those who have earned their passion through years of study--who chase with scientific rigor and experienced chasers who make informed decisions. If you are really chasing for just the thrill, for a cheap escape from life's drudgery, you are missing the point, the true significance of an earth-shattering scientific battle for safety and knowledge.

[Turtle]

snowflake...

 

What you said.  Perfect.

 

--Turtle

[Superstorm93]

Beautifully said snowflake.

I'm not a man of faith, but my thoughts and prayers are with the Samaras and Young family.
 

[Thunder Road]

My signature is obviously meant in a totally different context but...

What happened with Tim is a tragedy and when I heard about it this afternoon, I actually felt great physical pain. I honestly still can't even comprehend that we lost Tim, his son, and Mr. Young all in one horrible night.

 

Of course of course.  But I'm sure I'm not the only one who shed a few tears last night, which made me think it would be a simple tribute to change it for a day or whatever.

[JoMo]

I've seen worse posted on facebook by 'normal' people who said he deserved it for chasing the storm in the first place and that it's a stupid thing to do. I've had to 'inform' people all day on what his contribution has been. 

 

That's not even mentioning all the hateful spew coming from comments on CNN/ABC/NBC etc... People can be such a-holes sometimes. 

[weathergy]

I've seen worse posted on facebook by 'normal' people who said he deserved it for chasing the storm in the first place and that it's a stupid thing to do. I've had to 'inform' people all day on what his contribution has been. 

 

That's not even mentioning all the hateful spew coming from comments on CNN/ABC/NBC etc... People can be such a-holes sometimes. 

Yes, and it tends to make me cynical. Many glorify celebrities that have hardly contributed to anything in society.

 

I've shed a few tears myself. This was a guy that risked his life to make society a little safer. NO one should disrespect this man whatsoever.

[brettjrob]

I've seen worse posted on facebook by 'normal' people who said he deserved it for chasing the storm in the first place and that it's a stupid thing to do. I've had to 'inform' people all day on what his contribution has been. 

 

That's not even mentioning all the hateful spew coming from comments on CNN/ABC/NBC etc... People can be such a-holes sometimes. 

 

Difficult as it may be, I think it's best to ignore it entirely, particularly coming from anonymous members of the public with no meteorological affiliation. There's simply no way they'll ever take the time to understand who he was and what he contributed, so it's pointless to fight back. Many are just bored trolls who have a few select "shock" lines at the ready for the comments section on any news story, with one blank space for the name(s) of whoever's involved.

[brettjrob]

If we can ever find out exactly how this incident happened, we might learn something we can use. Otherwise, there is nothing to learn.

 

People keep saying this incident means "it can happen to anyone," and of course it can. But not all risks or risk-takers are equal. Not all chasers move in on tornadoes at close range. Not all drop probes into the paths of tornadoes, or have any other requirement or desire to get close, for thrills or the dramatic shot or any other reason. There are still plenty of chasers who prefer to hang back, get tri-podded, document structure, and rely on long lenses for close-ups.

 

The worst most likely will happen to those who take the biggest risks, whether the risks are professionally justified or not (and Friday's events bear that out). But that isn't just anyone and everyone equally.

 

Great perspective. We must keep in mind that, among research groups, the TWISTEX mission and MO was one of the more dangerous, if not the most. There are chasers out there, research and recreational alike, who simply never would have been in this position at all. They may be the minority, but they exist.

 

What's more relevant to me is the effect this will have on those who were extremely aggressive up until 31 May. Over the past several years, the envelope has been pushed farther and farther by an ever-growing contingent, but the dire predictions of some never came to pass. Now that it has, I honestly believe 31 May will have a significant impact on many people's decision-making -- even, perhaps, for some of the guys who've taken the most heat and might have been deemed hopeless causes before this. I know that prediction defies the entire history of storm chasing, but then, this was a paradigm-changing moment in that history.

[#NoPoles]

this is going to sound weird...i think...but i'm your regular weenie jo-schmo...i chase vicariously through others...always think to myself someday i'd like to go and do it...but i just watch the radar and the spotter network and wait for pics and updates to come in...always in awe of the real scientists...but i am having a hard time with this...i don't know these gentlemen, other than that i understand their love for meteorology and weather and always wanting to know "why" and always wanting to know "more"...i was at the gym on the treadmill watching and listening to TWC as everything was unfolding...watching the radar and the multiple TVS that the meso kept cycling...and i had this awful feeling in the pit of my stomach...and then I saw what happened to the TWC crew, and listening to them say they were limping north towards El Reno at 20mph trying to get to a hospital, while asking Dr Forbes if they were driving into the path of anymore circulations since they had lost all their equipment and they were in the one car that was still driveable...and then they kept showing all the highways clogged with headlights because it was rush hour, and also because TWC and NewsStations were telling people if they couldn't get underground, they should try to drive south out of the path of the tornadoes....

 

this whole thing has made me very sad...i have read all the blogs and the news articles and have teared up every time...i really wish this never happened...i keep hoping it didn't...but i know it did...

[NavarreDon]

http://www.wptz.com/storm-chasers-lose-lives-in-tornado/-/8870596/20394088/-/ykdbip/-/index.html?absolute=true

[Msalgado]

Science is great.  I do my science based on numbers gathered by instrumentation and simply crunch the data in matlab.  I'm thankful to those that are gathering data.

 

That being said, science is not an excuse to do something this dangerous a lot of the time.  You don't have to get in the path of a dangerous tornado and put yourself at risk in order to gather the data.  A huge effort like VORTEX manages to gather a large amount of data around these storms at minimal danger.  Frankly, I think many storm chaser teams use science as a justification crutch for their over the top dangerous behavior.  I know this is likely to not be a popular opinion.  I do think what happened was a tragedy but what is worse is that it was an avoidable tragedy.  

 

I hope this incident is at the forefront of chasers minds when they're out there and I hope it helps people make good decisions in the future.

[Superstorm93]

@M4dRefluX

Can you please remove the WBBC post?

 

Nothing personal of course, I just think that level of scum shouldn't be allowed in a thread dedicated to remembering three great human beings. 

 

I've personally had to threaten the lives of those absolutely pathetic pieces of sh*t (along with the Patriot Guard Riders) at a Marine funeral back in 2008. Just seeing their name makes my blood boil with rage.

[weathergy]

@M4dRefluX

Can you please remove the WBBC post?

 

Nothing personal of course, I just think that level of scum shouldn't be allowed in a thread dedicated to remembering three great human beings. 

 

I've personally had to threaten the lives of those absolutely pathetic pieces of sh*t (along with the Patriot Guard Riders) at a Marine funeral back in 2008. Just seeing their name makes my blood boil with rage.

Done

[New England Storm]

Sad News, all of the three killed were doing important research that  continues to improve the warnings for tornado events. If it was not for men like Tim Samaras, his son Paul and Carl Young we would not have the data that has advanced the warning systems in order to save lives. It is startling to think of all the lives men like Tim have had a hand in saving over the years and to have something like this happen to  them. On days like this it seems like only the good die young.  

 

 

Rest in Peace. 

[brettjrob]

Science is great.  I do my science based on numbers gathered by instrumentation and simply crunch the data in matlab.  I'm thankful to those that are gathering data.

 

That being said, science is not an excuse to do something this dangerous a lot of the time.  You don't have to get in the path of a dangerous tornado and put yourself at risk in order to gather the data.  A huge effort like VORTEX manages to gather a large amount of data around these storms at minimal danger.  Frankly, I think many storm chaser teams use science as a justification crutch for their over the top dangerous behavior.  I know this is likely to not be a popular opinion.  I do think what happened was a tragedy but what is worse is that it was an avoidable tragedy.  

 

I hope this incident is at the forefront of chasers minds when they're out there and I hope it helps people make good decisions in the future.

 

As an active chaser and student in the field, I disagree with a couple of your premises. It is true that certain chasers overstate the role of "advancing science" in their activities. Even though I generally like him, I'd place Reed Timmer in that category. Now, you may believe that recreational chasing is irresponsible or otherwise unjustifiable, and you're entitled to that opinion. But even in that case, Samaras and Co. were not purely recreational chasers, publicly claiming a contribution to science while chuckling under their breaths. One need not look any further to confirm this than the peer-reviewed publications that have been mentioned in this and other threads. Furthermore, I think it's unwise and slightly arrogant (for anyone) to view TWISTEX and VORTEX2 as categorically different, in terms of the latter being immune from danger. In reality, V2 never intercepted a storm of this magnitude and danger during their two-year tenure. Had they done so, with traffic and all other factors identical to Friday, I fear that a lot of very close calls would have been the most optimistic outcome, and probably not even the likeliest. Field campaigns studying tornadic supercells are inherently dangerous to some extent, just as recreational chasing of said storms is.

 

I do agree with your last statement, and as I said earlier, I genuinely do think it will have a lasting impact on many (though not all) chasers' and researchers' decision-making in the field.

[Uncle Bobby]

I cannot sugar-coat it.  This statement exposes the poster as clueless.  Go away.

You don't have to get in the path of a dangerous tornado and put yourself at risk in order to gather the data.

[Msalgado]

 

As an active chaser and student in the field, I disagree with a couple of your premises. It is true that certain chasers overstate the role of "advancing science" in their activities. Even though I generally like him, I'd place Reed Timmer in that category. Now, you may believe that recreational chasing is irresponsible or otherwise unjustifiable, and you're entitled to that opinion. But even in that case, Samaras and Co. were not purely recreational chasers, publicly claiming a contribution to science while chuckling under their breaths. One need not look any further to confirm this than the peer-reviewed publications that have been mentioned in this and other threads. Furthermore, I think it's unwise and slightly arrogant (for anyone) to view TWISTEX and VORTEX2 as categorically different, in terms of the latter being immune from danger. In reality, V2 never intercepted a storm of this magnitude and danger during their two-year tenure. Had they done so, with traffic and all other factors identical to Friday, I fear that a lot of very close calls would have been the most optimistic outcome, and probably not even the likeliest. Field campaigns studying tornadic supercells are inherently dangerous to some extent, just as recreational chasing of said storms is.

 

I do agree with your last statement, and as I said earlier, I genuinely do think it will have a lasting impact on many (though not all) chasers' and researchers' decision-making in the field.

 

To clairfy, I think recreational chasing is just fine!  I think you can safely observe tornadic storms from a distance.  I would absolutely put Reed Timmer in the category i was mentioning.  I do think TWISTEX and VORTEX are absolutely different, however.  I don't know the complete logistics of VORTEX's chases through the two years they were out there but I do not believe they would have put themselves in the path of a storm so dangerous and with so much traffic.  I may be wrong, however.  As you said, there is an inherent danger involved in being anywhere near these storms (especially from lightning - not tornadoes) but I do think certain chasers make the situation much worse than is necessary.

Anyway, just my two cents on dangerous storm chasing.

[AtticaFanatica]

There is no way to conduct TWISTEX and not be in danger. It's in situ tornado obs, very different from remote sensing oriented experiments.

[phlwx]

If you're doing tornado chasing for scientific reasons, understanding the risks, but do everything you can to attempt to "safe chase" I've got no problems with it.  There are going to be accidents, situations like El Reno where a tornado makes that sudden shift that you can't predict and all hell's going to break loose. 

 

The problem I've got with chasing lately has been with the Bettes/Sullivan types who do this as a way to get fame, ratings, attention and scientific gain is not a primary or even a secondary consideration.  When one has 100k+ "likes" on Facebook while the research guys have 5,000 before Sunday, there's something not right with this picture.

 

I didn't think that the scientific chaser would be the first to lose his/her life...I really thought some d-bag punk "extreme" type would be the first to go.  It makes it a bit more painful...but it should really serve as a wake up call to the meteorological community that chasing severe weather shouldn't be about trying to whore yourself for attention or personal fame but that increasing understanding of severe weather is the sole goal of severe chasing.

 

I know it's unlikely to happen but the weather community collectively needs to start shunning the "extreme chasers" and put science as the goal.  Most are there already but it needs to be universal.

[HurricaneJosh]

I know it's unlikely to happen but the weather community collectively needs to start shunning the "extreme chasers" and put science as the goal.  Most are there already but it needs to be universal.

Not sure I agree. A spectacular video from inside a tornado is a spectacular video from inside a tornado. I'm not going to shun that because some folks feel that type of chasing is BAD and some other type of chasing is GOOD. What about the wide grey area in between these two caricatures-- i.e., the reality that most of us chasers actually inhabit?

People are trying to make this a black-and-white issue and it isn't.

While my chase data have helped the science-- the NHC has used my data for postanalysis, and I take great pains to collect good, quality-controlled data-- that is not why I chase. Science is not my primary goal. And I make no apologies about that. Zero.

[phlwx]

Not sure I agree. A spectacular video from inside a tornado is a spectacular video from inside a tornado. I'm not going to shun that because some folks feel that type of chasing is BAD and some other type of chasing is GOOD. What about the wide grey area in between these two caricatures-- i.e., the reality that most of us chasers actually inhabit?

People are trying to make this a black-and-white issue and it isn't.

While my chase data have helped the science-- the NHC has used my data for postanalysis, and I take great pains to collect good, quality-controlled data-- that is not why I chase. Science is not my primary goal. And I make no apologies about that. Zero.

 

The last week (between the TIV stuff and El Reno) have changed my opinion regarding chasing...you might be smart about how you do it (and a number of others are as well) but unless you're in it for science or research as a predominate reason, I'm not sure chasing has merit for the weenie or TWC types of the world.  Not because of you or those who are safe chasers but because there are increasing numbers of idiots who are putting themselves in a position to get harmed (Sullivan, Bettes, etc) all because they want a great video and want to get some fame for being "extreme."

 

As much as you may not want to admit it, there's a greater tendency now to "one up" the last extreme shot with something better.  That's not a positive trend with chasing any storm.

 

I don't think we should legislate or police chasing through laws but I do think that the idiots out there should get called out and quickly de-emphasized as "legit"...unfortunately, some of them are who gather large followings in social media.  Like I said, I doubt anything really changes but the weather community does need to reflect on this a bit.