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January 17th-18th Winter Storm Discussion


BullCityWx

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Was hoping for some comment from those with access beyond the 24 hours frames -- at 48h the s/w looked stronger and then you still see remnants of it (and pretty cold 850s) on the coast at 72h. Care to share what it shows in between?

Nothing. 850 0c line dances north of the precip majority of run. 0c line at 66hrs is from CLT to RDU but that is after the precip has fallen, moves out. Not a lot of snow for anyone this run.

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Peachtree is on board for the possibility.

1227 PM EST TUE JAN 15 2013

...WINTER WEATHER POSSIBLE ACROSS NORTH GEORGIA ON THURSDAY...

A STRONG LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM WILL MOVE ACROSS THE STATE ON THURSDAY.
AHEAD OF THE SYSTEM... A DEEP SOUTHERLY FLOW WILL SPREAD AMPLE
GULF MOISTURE NORTHWARD... RESULTING IN WIDESPREAD RAIN ACROSS
NORTH AND CENTRAL GEORGIA. AS THE ASSOCIATED COLD FRONT PUSHES
INTO THE CAROLINAS THURSDAY AFTERNOON... A DEEP COLD AIR MASS WILL
BEGIN TO SPREAD INTO THE AREA FROM WEST TO EAST THURSDAY AFTERNOON
AND EVENING. AS A RESULT... THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR RAIN TO
CHANGE OVER TO SNOW ACROSS PARTS OF NORTH GEORGIA IF SUFFICIENT
WRAP AROUND MOISTURE CAN SPREAD BACK INTO THE COLD AIR MASS BEHIND
THE DEPARTING COLD FRONT. DESPITE WARM GROUNDS FROM RECENT
UNSEASONABLE WARM TEMPERATURES... THERE IS THE POTENTIAL THAT
STRONG UPPER FORCING COULD ENHANCE SNOWFALL RATES ENOUGH TO ALLOW
FOR SOME LIGHT SNOW ACCUMULATIONS ACROSS PARTS OF NORTH GEORGIA BY
MID TO LATE THURSDAY AFTERNOON OR EARLY EVENING... BUT THIS WOULD
BE MAINLY OVER ELEVATED AND GRASSY SURFACES. ALTHOUGH LIGHT SNOW
COULD BE SEEN AS FAR SOUTH AS A LA GRANGE TO ATHENS LINE... IT
APPEARS THE GREATER CHANCES FOR SNOW ACCUMULATION WOULD BE
GENERALLY NORTH OF THE I-20 CORRIDOR WEST OF ATLANTA... AND THE
I-85 CORRIDOR EAST OF ATLANTA.

AT THIS TIME... NO WIDESPREAD TRAVEL DIFFICULTIES ARE EXPECTED
WITH THE INITIAL SNOWFALL THURSDAY AFTERNOON AND EARLY EVENING...
EXCEPT POSSIBLY IN THE NORTHEAST GEORGIA MOUNTAINS WHERE THERE IS
A GREATER POTENTIAL FOR HIGHER SNOW ACCUMULATIONS. HOWEVER...
THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR PATCHES OF BLACK ICE DEVELOPING ON BRIDGES
AND OVERPASSES FROM LATE THURSDAY EVENING THROUGH MID FRIDAY
MORNING WHEN TEMPERATURES FALL BELOW FREEZING.

ALL INTEREST ACROSS NORTH AND CENTRAL GEORGIA SHOULD CONTINUE TO
MONITOR LATER FORECASTS AND REMAIN ALERT FOR THE POTENTIAL OF
WINTER WEATHER THURSDAY AFTERNOON AND THURSDAY NIGHT.
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We will be shooting blanks outside of the mountains at least through the end of the month in my view. At this point we are nearly looking to February for the last great hope before this horrid 2nd consecutive winter season comes to a close.

 

Nah I never give up hope till the end of March. I've seen too many big snows near the end of March in my lifetime here in The Upsate of SC. Granted it doesn't happen often, but I've seen a few of them and I'd say we're overdue one at that time also.

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As Andy eluded to just when the trend starts in one direction along comes Dr No with a stronger system. No doubts temps are not great anywhere outside the mountains but the strength and track are gonna change things for some folks. This one is gonna be hard to call and kudos to those of you that have to put your name out there to the public as a MET. Thanks Robert, Andy, delta, Matt and the rest of you for the analysis!!

Let's all sit back and enjoy and thank ma nature for giving us weirdos something to track and follow this winter!!

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I would think if the Euro depiction at 500 is right, it could be underestimating the qpf amounts.  If it's that dynamic it would reason that there would be a pretty expansive qpf field (more like the NAM)

 

NC definitely gets it's fair share of QPF...

 

CLT ~1.72"

HKY ~1.08"

RDU ~1.03"

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Peachtree is on board for the possibility.

1227 PM EST TUE JAN 15 2013

...WINTER WEATHER POSSIBLE ACROSS NORTH GEORGIA ON THURSDAY...

A STRONG LOW PRESSURE SYSTEM WILL MOVE ACROSS THE STATE ON THURSDAY.

AHEAD OF THE SYSTEM... A DEEP SOUTHERLY FLOW WILL SPREAD AMPLE

GULF MOISTURE NORTHWARD... RESULTING IN WIDESPREAD RAIN ACROSS

NORTH AND CENTRAL GEORGIA. AS THE ASSOCIATED COLD FRONT PUSHES

INTO THE CAROLINAS THURSDAY AFTERNOON... A DEEP COLD AIR MASS WILL

BEGIN TO SPREAD INTO THE AREA FROM WEST TO EAST THURSDAY AFTERNOON

AND EVENING. AS A RESULT... THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR RAIN TO

CHANGE OVER TO SNOW ACROSS PARTS OF NORTH GEORGIA IF SUFFICIENT

WRAP AROUND MOISTURE CAN SPREAD BACK INTO THE COLD AIR MASS BEHIND

THE DEPARTING COLD FRONT. DESPITE WARM GROUNDS FROM RECENT

UNSEASONABLE WARM TEMPERATURES... THERE IS THE POTENTIAL THAT

STRONG UPPER FORCING COULD ENHANCE SNOWFALL RATES ENOUGH TO ALLOW

FOR SOME LIGHT SNOW ACCUMULATIONS ACROSS PARTS OF NORTH GEORGIA BY

MID TO LATE THURSDAY AFTERNOON OR EARLY EVENING... BUT THIS WOULD

BE MAINLY OVER ELEVATED AND GRASSY SURFACES. ALTHOUGH LIGHT SNOW

COULD BE SEEN AS FAR SOUTH AS A LA GRANGE TO ATHENS LINE... IT

APPEARS THE GREATER CHANCES FOR SNOW ACCUMULATION WOULD BE

GENERALLY NORTH OF THE I-20 CORRIDOR WEST OF ATLANTA... AND THE

I-85 CORRIDOR EAST OF ATLANTA.

AT THIS TIME... NO WIDESPREAD TRAVEL DIFFICULTIES ARE EXPECTED

WITH THE INITIAL SNOWFALL THURSDAY AFTERNOON AND EARLY EVENING...

EXCEPT POSSIBLY IN THE NORTHEAST GEORGIA MOUNTAINS WHERE THERE IS

A GREATER POTENTIAL FOR HIGHER SNOW ACCUMULATIONS. HOWEVER...

THERE IS A POTENTIAL FOR PATCHES OF BLACK ICE DEVELOPING ON BRIDGES

AND OVERPASSES FROM LATE THURSDAY EVENING THROUGH MID FRIDAY

MORNING WHEN TEMPERATURES FALL BELOW FREEZING.

ALL INTEREST ACROSS NORTH AND CENTRAL GEORGIA SHOULD CONTINUE TO

MONITOR LATER FORECASTS AND REMAIN ALERT FOR THE POTENTIAL OF

WINTER WEATHER THURSDAY AFTERNOON AND THURSDAY NIGHT.

I'm going to say this... I'm shocked. FFC is always VERY conservative with their forecast. Wow...

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when's he last time a rain event under-performed on precipitation?  last winter most likely

 

all events (at least near Greenville, SC) since December 1st or so have OVER-performed

 

Was about to post this but...

 

Fair enough. :) Just being conservative with this system.

 

I see you already saw it and agreed...

 

I have thought those snow accums were overdone though.

 

What was said before this to cause the nevertheless qualifier?

 

Was wondering the same thing...

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I'm going to say this... I'm shocked. FFC is always VERY conservative with their forecast. Wow...

 

Steve, I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that myself.  Usually have to pull them kicking and screaming to make mention of an event like this, especially when its a marginal situation.  Perhaps they are thinking the same thing in regard to the euro that has it trending stronger.  Anywho, finally a fun one to watch......when it comes to winter weather, its been quite awhile.

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Sounds like it's bowing to the mighty nam, could it be?

 

 

the "mighty" NAM is all over the place right now and has been, but that's no surprise right?

 

it's trending weaker and less expansive at 500mb from previous NAM runs (see my post from earlier)

 

since it has gone from an Illinois to Tennessee to now Western NC snow storm in around two days time, it's the new "crazy drunk uncle" of all models as far as I'm concerned

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the "mighty" NAM is getting a bit too much credit... the model is all over the place right now and has been

 

it's trending weaker and less expansive at 500mb from previous NAM runs (see my post from earlier)

 

since it has gone from an Illinois to Tennessee to now Western NC snow storm in around two days time, it's the new "crazy drunk uncle" of all models as far as I'm concerned

LOL I know, I just figured that would get a few euro fans fired up. The nam has trended weaker with each run, but that was expected as you alluded to. It has went from the midwest to the south in just 24 hours. I was posting yesterday at 12z about how far north it was. The nam should continue to trend south, but how much more? I see the euro and ukie have went to a much stronger closed low on today's runs.

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the "mighty" NAM is all over the place right now and has been, but that's no surprise right?

 

it's trending weaker and less expansive at 500mb from previous NAM runs (see my post from earlier)

 

since it has gone from an Illinois to Tennessee to now Western NC snow storm in around two days time, it's the new "crazy drunk uncle" of all models as far as I'm concerned

 

Pretty typical of the NAM in these situations. I think it was like Feb of '10 that it did the same thing but started on NC and ended up hitting IN and KY really hard. It actually zeroed in on those areas within about 42 hours, but had slowly started going that was the closer to 42 it got. Perhaps this one is the same and it starts to hone in on NC (or I can dream at least). With that storm it also overperformed which IIRC seems to the MO with ULLs that roll through. 

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LOL I know, I just figured that would get a few euro fans fired up. The nam has trended weaker with each run, but that was expected as you alluded to. It has went from the midwest to the south in just 24 hours. I was posting yesterday at 12z about how far north it was. The nam should continue to trend south, but how much more? I see the euro and ukie have went to a much stronger closed low on today's runs.

 

since we have many who live in Western NC frequenting this board (Franklin, Don, Met and others)... I'm pulling for them and expect to see a tad more expansive precip field on radar on the northern side of this system compared to what is currently shown on the GFS and Euro

 

although, the heaviest precip will certainly be under the upper low and highest vertical velocities... so being too far north in Western NC might not be as good of a position in this case

 

Balsam Mountains to Cataloochee are my pick to click

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I wish I was in WNC :)

 

The dividing line, if take the 2000' mark would be the mid to upper part of Rutherford County for my area. My area sits around 1000-1,200' .

 

since we have many who live in Western NC frequenting this board (Franklin, Don, Met and others)... I'm pulling for them and expect to see a tad more expansive precip field on radar onthe northern side of this system compared to what is currently shown on the GFS and Euro

 

although, the heaviest precip will certainly be under the upper low and highest vertical velocities... so being too far north in Western NC might not be as good of a position in this case

 

Balsam Mountains to Cataloochee are my pick to click

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since we have many who live in Western NC frequenting this board (Franklin, Don, Met and others)... I'm pulling for them and expect to see a tad more expansive precip field on radar onthe northern side of this system compared to what is currently shown on the GFS and Euro

 

although, the heaviest precip will certainly be under the upper low and highest vertical velocities... so being too far north in Western NC might not be as good of a position in this case

 

Balsam Mountains are my pick to click

 

We shall see.  The NAM soundings indicate change-over to snow by 4pm and quickly ending by 10pm.  Gotta figure the first hour or two of any potential snow will be working as a foundation builder for more accumulations.  My first guess for AVL is 2-4", again using essentially a blend of the NAM and EURO.  GFS is about 200 miles further south with the low than the NAM, so big changes are still possible.  In addition, the 06Z run of the GFS had no QPF over the western NC mountains, and now we are "back on " again with the 12Z run.  And we are within 48-60 hours of the event starting!

 

GFS soundings, FWIW, show changeover by 2pm, ending by 7pm.  Colder but drier is the end result there.  1-2" if you take it at face value.

 

If the 00Z and tomorrow's 12Z NAM/GFS start to converge, look for a WSW by noon tomorrow for the western NC mountains.

 

My winner?  Smoky Mountains National Park.  6"?

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since we have many who live in Western NC frequenting this board (Franklin, Don, Met and others)... I'm pulling for them and expect to see a tad more expansive precip field on radar on the northern side of this system compared to what is currently shown on the GFS and Euro

 

although, the heaviest precip will certainly be under the upper low and highest vertical velocities... so being too far north in Western NC might not be as good of a position in this case

 

Balsam Mountains to Cataloochee are my pick to click

I thought it helps to be just north of the 700mb low? Is that not the best spot to be for the best rates?

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Pretty typical of the NAM in these situations. I think it was like Feb of '10 that it did the same thing but started on NC and ended up hitting IN and KY really hard. It actually zeroed in on those areas within about 42 hours, but had slowly started going that was the closer to 42 it got. Perhaps this one is the same and it starts to hone in on NC (or I can dream at least). With that storm it also overperformed which IIRC seems to the MO with ULLs that roll through. 

 

good point brother

 

it pays to stay somewhat optimistic and looking at how things are trending knowing that a few minor changes can put you in the game... too bad this system has a bit of a low ceiling as to how cold the middle and upper levels can get in Charlotte Thursday evening

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