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A change to a wintry pattern emerging after November?


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The good Dr. has been swerving all over the road at the end of its run.

And he doesn't go deep like the Gfs. Still, this far out. the most likely outcome is a trough in the west with chill blanes in Galvaston, or bitter up east. If P A's owl eyes are still there in a week, it's time to go low hunting, because it might get cold down south straight on instead of the usual modified afterthought :) T

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I'm just glad the pattern seems to be overall favorable leading into winter. Looks like we have a lot of hope for this year. However I still have little faith in winter weather for the SE in early December. Late December is rare enough, early December I think would be even more hard to come by. We may get below normal temp wise, but that's about it in my expectations. I think we just need patience.

I wonder what the stats are for our earliest snows in piedmont of NC? Of course the magical I-40 north corridor is probably alot earlier than CLT.

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I'm just glad the pattern seems to be overall favorable leading into winter. Looks like we have a lot of hope for this year. However I still have little faith in winter weather for the SE in early December. Late December is rare enough, early December I think would be even more hard to come by. We may get below normal temp wise, but that's about it in my expectations. I think we just need patience.

I wonder what the stats are for our earliest snows in piedmont of NC? Of course the magical I-40 north corridor is probably alot earlier than CLT.

Well unfortunately for us, I am concerned this upcoming pattern changes lasts to say Dec 20th and than we have 3-4 week breather, which puts towards the end of January. We may be looking at having to wait until February for our first real snow event. I think some Met's forecasted a colder December, warmer January and colder February. It might be 2 1/2 months before we (central/piedmont NC) have a real shot at something. I am just glad the -NAO/-AO are being shown so hopefully they come back end of January.

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I'm just glad the pattern seems to be overall favorable leading into winter. Looks like we have a lot of hope for this year. However I still have little faith in winter weather for the SE in early December. Late December is rare enough, early December I think would be even more hard to come by. We may get below normal temp wise, but that's about it in my expectations. I think we just need patience.

I wonder what the stats are for our earliest snows in piedmont of NC? Of course the magical I-40 north corridor is probably alot earlier than CLT.

December and March mirror each other in terms of snow events over the years, in Charlotte…with early Dec much like late March, and late Dec much like early March. However, Dec is the 2nd coldest of the 4 months (Dec/Jan/Feb/Mar), so there’s a bit of untapped potential there.

Here are some notable Nov / early Dec snow events in Charlotte (some of these span across multiple days)…

12/03/1896 – 11.0

12/17/1904 – 3.3

12/12/1917 – 5.6

12/17/1930 – 10.4

12/17/1932 – 3.8

12/15/1945 – 4.7

12/14/1958 – 2.9

11/12/1968 – 2.5

12/03/1971 – 7.5

12/17/1973 – 4.4

11/19/2000 – 2.5

12/04/2002 – major ice storm

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12z GFS LR keeps all the cold to our west and north then goes back to warmer temps. Let the dance continue.

Sigh... Might as well wait till its 5 days out and the models arent flip flopping. Then there would be no fun in that or watching the timeframe get pushed back further and further. Oh well its already colder here than last wiinter. Its been below average all month.

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12z GFS LR keeps all the cold to our west and north then goes back to warmer temps. Let the dance continue.

The GFS truncating after 192 and basically parking the trough over the SW and dumping crazy cold air all the way in Mexico is not realistic. I do like the trends before before model truncation.. that is, forming a PNA ridge and hooking it up with the AK block. A -NAO forms during this time too before the GFS overwhelms it with the PV just west of Greenland.

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The GFS truncating after 192 and basically parking the trough over the SW and dumping crazy cold air all the way in Mexico is not realistic. I do like the trends before before model truncation.. that is, forming a PNA ridge and hooking it up with the AK block. A -NAO forms during this time too before the GFS overwhelms it with the PV just west of Greenland.

I agree (..not realistic), but the setup is a possibility. I'm a little interested in what the GFS is showing at day 8. If things were a little different we could be looking at a possible CAD situation. The next model frames shows the high quickly moving out and a big warm up starting, but this is where the models have always had issues.

gfs_namer_192_850_temp_mslp_precip.gif

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The GFS keeps the flow fast around the PV in Canada, disallowing any sort of phase with the developing trough out west beyond D+7 and maintains a positive tilt, thus keeping the arctic air bottled up in Canada. Regardless, the "squeeze" is still on at the arctic region. The firm presence of the Aleutian and Greenland ridges/blocks through out the model run tell me that that there will be plenty of model watching throughout at least the first half of December.

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December and March mirror each other in terms of snow events over the years, in Charlotte…with early Dec much like late March, and late Dec much like early March. However, Dec is the 2nd coldest of the 4 months (Dec/Jan/Feb/Mar), so there’s a bit of untapped potential there.

Here are some notable Nov / early Dec snow events in Charlotte (some of these span across multiple days)…

12/03/1896 – 11.0

12/17/1904 – 3.3

12/12/1917 – 5.6

12/17/1930 – 10.4

12/17/1932 – 3.8

12/15/1945 – 4.7

12/14/1958 – 2.9

11/12/1968 – 2.5

12/03/1971 – 7.5

12/17/1973 – 4.4

11/19/2000 – 2.5

12/04/2002 – major ice storm

I was just thinking about the December 3rd storm of 1973 just before I read your post. I remember it very well. Big snow and ice storm here in the upstate of South Carolina. But I also remember a 4 inch snowfall here on the night of November 10th, I think in the year 1968.

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I was just thinking about the December 3rd storm of 1973 just before I read your post. I remember it very well. Big snow and ice storm here in the upstate of South Carolina. But I also remember a 4 inch snowfall here on the night of November 10th, I think in the year 1968.

Yeah, I've got 1.7in on Nov 11, and 0.8in on Nov 12 - 1968, at CLT.

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If the double block continues to show, then Goofy will eventually figure out the result of the squeeze would squirt the toothpaste down here :) Otherwise, the logical outcome would be one block, or the other, and a cold west, or a cold east, with the usual highly modified hit and run for us. I don't mind an early, unusual cold snap here, as long as it comes back around New Years. Cold Dec. 1st, cool Xmas, cold New Years, is all right. Funny how the thoughts always run to "if", and "or". Like a true cold winter from Dec. 1st to the end of March, isn't possible, lol. Well, we just saw a hot one from start to finish is compeletely possible. I'd prefer bitter, and bitterer throughout. T

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The GFS keeps the flow fast around the PV in Canada, disallowing any sort of phase with the developing trough out west beyond D+7 and maintains a positive tilt, thus keeping the arctic air bottled up in Canada. Regardless, the "squeeze" is still on at the arctic region. The firm presence of the Aleutian and Greenland ridges/blocks through out the model run tell me that that there will be plenty of model watching throughout at least the first half of December.

Ya lots of model watching will be going on. It is interesting already seeing the swings in each model from run to run. With so many changes this should be no surprise at this range.

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The 12z Euro has a shortwave diving down through eastern NM into far west TX at hr 240. From looking at the 500mb maps on instantweathermaps it looks like it could be trying to set up an overrunning type of event with the potential of P-type issues on the northern fringe.

This exact presentation is not likely to happen being 240 out but at least it's showing something to look at...at least for one model run.

post-347-0-02442400-1353354569_thumb.gif

post-347-0-44022000-1353354586_thumb.gif

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The 12z Euro has a shortwave diving down through eastern NM into far west TX at hr 240. From looking at the 500mb maps on instantweathermaps it looks like it could be trying to set up an overrunning type of event with the potential of P-type issues on the northern fringe.

This exact presentation is not likely to happen being 240 out but at least it's showing something to look at...at least for one model run.

Speaking of overrunning, you know, I think I'd take my chances with a normal temp winter and all these damming events every few days. I've been enjoying a cool ne wind and fine drizzle all day. My fondest wish is these cads will go on all winter. T

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Another learning opportunity, please bare with me, does the GEFS and the EURO ENS not show a spliting of the polar vortex? The higher heights extending over the poles? Looks good to me. The blue means cold!!

Look at this pic below...I wouldn't say it splits but a lobe does elongate and drops south into Canada...give us a +PNA and this board would explode for the MA and NE folks.

12zecmwfens500mbHGHTNH240.gif

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I no everyone keeps looking to the end of the month but the cold shot this weekend is nothing to look past. Seems like each run this blast of cold air keeps getting more impressive. Now the models look to have some upslope snow along the TN/NC boarder counties. This would be some of the coldest air we have seen all season in some places,

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