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10/29 Snowloween -- Thread 1


phlwx

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from Delisi

AFTER THAT, WE THINK IT BEST NOT TO START CHANGING THE FORECAST. THE

NAM ONLY GOES OUT TO 12Z FRIDAY, BUT A 00Z SUNDAY COMPARISON OF THE

THE MILDLY INTERESTING GFS, THE MODERATELY MORE OMINOUS CANADIAN

GLOBAL AND THE CONSIDERABLY MORE OMINOUS ECMWF DOES NOT TELL THIS

FORECASTER TO PLACE ALL HIS CHIPS ON RED WITH THIS ROLL OF THE WHEEL.-- End Changed Discussion --

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Amazing how the Euro continues to show a far NW solution while all other models don't even graze the coast. Doesn't it have a bias of over-amplifying troughs? Maybe that's why.

Just remember the boxing day storm. The euro at this time range was the only model to have it, all other models said you're nuts euro. Not comparing this storm to that, but more or less the model's performance.

And the euro's main bias is closing off/ holding back shortwaves in the South west US. It's usually the most conservative model when it comes to amplification. We'll see what the euro ens show.

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Amazing how the Euro continues to show a far NW solution while all other models don't even graze the coast. Doesn't it have a bias of over-amplifying troughs? Maybe that's why.

It has everything to do with the way it is handling Rina. Weaker, remnant moisture is good for the southern stream s/w to remain strong... a stronger Rina blocks the southern stream and doesn't allow a phase.

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It has everything to do with the way it is handling Rina. Weaker, remnant moisture is good for the southern stream s/w to remain strong... a stronger Rina blocks the southern stream and doesn't allow a phase.

I can't see Rina being that strong much past Cancun/Coz given its smaller size and the upcoming wind shear. It doesn't look like it's going to pull a Wilma and shoot through S FL...

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I don't blame you. Can't see 3-6 but I can see 1-3 for the higher elevation crew. :drunk:

Sounds like a fair assessment to me.. anyone expecting 12-18" (like the euro/JMA) is printing out.. would be crazy.

I dont want, what could be the season's biggest snowfall, to happen in late October lol.

Based on the QPF, I'd go with 3-4" for MBY, at an elev of 1700'.

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It has everything to do with the way it is handling Rina. Weaker, remnant moisture is good for the southern stream s/w to remain strong... a stronger Rina blocks the southern stream and doesn't allow a phase.

Its trough also comes out of the sw more amplified than any other model. I don't see the suite of ensembles, but almost looks like two clusterings, one closer to the coast, one farther offshore. Canary in the coal mine storm see how well the models handle this one, it does have a Dec 2010 look to it with phasing issues.

Also looks like a piece of the energy puzzle coming into British Columbia should be better sampled starting with the 12z run tomorrow.

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The 18z GFS brings a warm, wet snow to coastal NJ. Can't find any records of significant October snow in Southern NJ so I'm hoping it verifies.

Precip would be way too light and SST's are too warm with a ne wind for it to be snow in reality based on the GFS' depiction.

PS -- raw temps on the 18z GFS are in the 40's at the coast on Saturday...perhaps near 50.

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Precip would be way too light and SST's are too warm with a ne wind for it to be snow in reality based on the GFS' depiction.

PS -- raw temps on the 18z GFS are in the 40's at the coast on Saturday...perhaps near 50.

I agree, it would not amount to much of anything and would be a waste of storm potential, mabye if there is a deeper, offshore system.

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Precip would be way too light and SST's are too warm with a ne wind for it to be snow in reality based on the GFS' depiction.

PS -- raw temps on the 18z GFS are in the 40's at the coast on Saturday...perhaps near 50.

Perhaps I haven't explored it enough, but I don't understand which chart/panel leads you to surface temps. Would you care to educate an amateur?

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Perhaps I haven't explored it enough, but I don't understand which chart/panel leads you to surface temps. Would you care to educate an amateur?

I can throw in my 2cents here..

You can pull up skew-t/sounding charts for each frame of the gfs /nam on twisterdata.com.

That gives you a graph of ambient temp and dew point temp from 1000mb (surface roughly) all the way up to 200mn ( strat). However, for "frozen" precip, you just need to look at roughly 850mb ( snow growth zone) in conjuction with what's goin on @700mb's (warm pockets) and from 850-1000mb usually dictates precip type.

Warm=temps above 0C ---cold=below 0

Warm 850, warm 925 cold 1000(surface) indicates zrain

Warm 850, cold 925 cold surface =sleet

Cold 850 cold 925 cold surface =snow...

That's the basics. Not gonna get too technical. I'm on my iPhone, so maybe someone can show you the soundings chart and elaborate a bit further.

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Perhaps I haven't explored it enough, but I don't understand which chart/panel leads you to surface temps. Would you care to educate an amateur?

None of the "standard" charts. However, said data is definitely produced and distributed. Some sites make charts out of it. Otherwise you would look at the SkewT charts or raw gridded data.

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Perhaps I haven't explored it enough, but I don't understand which chart/panel leads you to surface temps. Would you care to educate an amateur?

I use Meteostar (http://wxweb.meteost...shtml?text=KVPZ) for the GFS and WxCaster for the NAM (http://www.wxcaster....models_text.htm) although you can get the GFS there too, I just prefer Meteostar's interface.

That said, whenever precipitation type is in question, it's never enough to look at just one level (especially not just the surface). Like bri said, the Skew-T's on TwisterData can be very useful.

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