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First flakes in New England

CapturedNature

By CapturedNature,
in New England

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CapturedNature

CapturedNature

Posted
Posted

I know it snows year round up on Mt Washington, but Will's post got me thinking about what is the earliest it can or has snowed at different elevations from northern to southern New England.

So, since we know it can snow at higher elevations year round, what is the earliest it has snowed in the valleys of northern New England?

In terms of southern New England, what are the earliest dates for snow in Mass., CT & RI? I recall when it snowed on Oct 4, 1987 that it was reported as the earliest measurable snow but I'm wondering if it's ever mixed with snow earlier than that....I would think it had.

In CT, I'm thinking that it's possible to mix by mid-September, but I don't have any data to support that. Anyone know of any records in Mass. or CT outside of the major climo stations?

Dave

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MaineJayhawk

MaineJayhawk

Posted
Posted

I know it snows year round up on Mt Washington, but Will's post got me thinking about what is the earliest it can or has snowed at different elevations from northern to southern New England.

So, since we know it can snow at higher elevations year round, what is the earliest it has snowed in the valleys of northern New England?

In terms of southern New England, what are the earliest dates for snow in Mass., CT & RI? I recall when it snowed on Oct 4, 1987 that it was reported as the earliest measurable snow but I'm wondering if it's ever mixed with snow earlier than that....I would think it had.

In CT, I'm thinking that it's possible to mix by mid-September, but I don't have any data to support that. Anyone know of any records in Mass. or CT outside of the major climo stations?

Dave

I'm pretty sure that 2k Pete has mentioned (many times) that his burgh has seen flakes in mid-September, if not earlier.

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HoarfrostHubb

HoarfrostHubb

Posted
Posted

In Boston they had a trace of snow in July???!!!???

1955

http://www.erh.noaa.gov/box/climate/snowbos.html

Boston Seasonal Snowfall Statistics (1920-1996)

(The season starts July 1st and ends June 30th)

Date of First Snow Date of Last Snow

Earliest Mean Latest Earliest Mean Latest

Trace Jul 10 1955 Nov 4 Dec 16 1973 Mar 25 1981 Apr 20 Jun 17 1952

1/2" Nov 4 1945 Dec 5 Jan 7 1958 Jan 30 1925 Mar 25 May 10 1977

1" Nov 10 1976 Dec 12 Jan 29 1928 Nov 24 1936 Mar 20 Apr 28 1987

2" Nov 11 1987 Dec 23 Feb 16 1980 Nov 24 1936 Mar 11 Apr 28 1987

3" Nov 11 1987 Jan 1 Mar 19 1992 Nov 24 1936 Mar 2 Apr 28 1987

4"* Nov 12 1987 Jan 10 Mar 19 1992 Jan 20 1932 Feb 26 Apr 13 1933

5"* Nov 12 1987 Jan 18 Mar 19 1992 Dec 2 1929 Feb 19 Apr 13 1933

6"* Dec 2 1929 Jan 23 Mar 29 1970 Dec 2 1929 Feb 16 Apr 6 1982

*did not occur in some years

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tamarack

tamarack

Posted
Posted

I know it snows year round up on Mt Washington, but Will's post got me thinking about what is the earliest it can or has snowed at different elevations from northern to southern New England.

So, since we know it can snow at higher elevations year round, what is the earliest it has snowed in the valleys of northern New England?

Saw flakes in Ft. Kent (at 1,000' elev) on 8/29/82. We also had aft showers on 7/4 that "summer" which pulled the temp under 40 in Allagash, at about 550'. Had I been home instead, I might've seen flakes with the fireworks. (That's latest, though, not earliest.)

Earliest accum in the settled areas might be the storm of 9/29-30/1991, which gave CAR 2.5". Elevations 1,000'+ had 1-3" on 9/14/1977 on the backside of the season's 1st northeast coastal.

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HoarfrostHubb

HoarfrostHubb

Posted
Posted

And none other than snowman21 posted this back at some old EasternUSWx rag:

#12user_off.pngsnowman21


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Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:32 AM

snapback.pngCool Spruce, on Apr 20 2009, 04:17 PM, said:

Old timers used to rumor about a snow on July 4th here, but it hasn't happened in my life time that I'm aware of.

That's not just a rumor, but most likely it is true as even Boston's first snowfall came as early July 10 in 1955. Just three years before that Boston recorded its latest snowfall on June 17, 1952. Boston's average last snowfall date is April 20th, so for those that were surprised by frozen precipitation in that area yesterday, it's not unusual by climatology standards.

BOS historic snowfall data from NWSFO Taunton MA (http://www.erh.noaa....te/snowbos.html)

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ma blizzard

ma blizzard

Posted
Posted

And none other than snowman21 posted this back at some old EasternUSWx rag:

#12user_off.pngsnowman21

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  • Location:Greenwich CT

Posted 21 April 2009 - 07:32 AM

snapback.pngCool Spruce, on Apr 20 2009, 04:17 PM, said:

Old timers used to rumor about a snow on July 4th here, but it hasn't happened in my life time that I'm aware of.

That's not just a rumor, but most likely it is true as even Boston's first snowfall came as early July 10 in 1955. Just three years before that Boston recorded its latest snowfall on June 17, 1952. Boston's average last snowfall date is April 20th, so for those that were surprised by frozen precipitation in that area yesterday, it's not unusual by climatology standards.

BOS historic snowfall data from NWSFO Taunton MA (http://www.erh.noaa....te/snowbos.html)

I believe hail is recorded as a T and included in seasonal snowfall totals / records ..

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snowman21

snowman21

Posted
Posted

Yeah, I know about the hail thing, but this shows up in the climo noaa site as snow... is it a technical error?

No it's legit. Hail was included with snow from July 1948-December 1955, and then again from May 1989-present. Sleet was also included with snow beginning in April 1970. There are ways to figure it out though. Obviously using temps for the day is a big clue, and often times in the climate record the types of weather/precip are tracked.

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HoarfrostHubb

HoarfrostHubb

Posted
Posted

No it's legit. Hail was included with snow from July 1948-December 1955, and then again from May 1989-present. Sleet was also included with snow beginning in April 1970. There are ways to figure it out though. Obviously using temps for the day is a big clue, and often times in the climate record the types of weather/precip are tracked.

So it was "snow", then it wan't "snow" then it is "snow" again?

But it was really probably hail...

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CapturedNature

CapturedNature

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No it's legit. Hail was included with snow from July 1948-December 1955, and then again from May 1989-present. Sleet was also included with snow beginning in April 1970. There are ways to figure it out though. Obviously using temps for the day is a big clue, and often times in the climate record the types of weather/precip are tracked.

That just seems bizarre to me but it explains why I was taught not to record hail as snowfall if it was changed in May 1989. I don't think hail counts because it's a different beast, not true IP in how they are formed. This explains the skewed record at Boston which I was questioning.

So it looks like late August for our friends at the northern tip of New England, mid-September for central New England and late September for southern elevated areas are the earliest dates that it has snowed (not including the summer of 1816!).

Really good stats guys! If anybody else recalls some early events in New England, I'd love to hear about them.

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MaineJayhawk

MaineJayhawk

Posted
Posted

There was rain mixed with snow at ORH on September 30, 1992. That's the earliest snow I'm aware of here. I'm sure some of the 2000+ foot areas of S NH and W MA have seen it a shade earlier.

CON and PWM both recorded traces on that date. Amazingly (to me, anyway) that is not PWM's earliest flakes. It happened on September 25 in 1987.

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powderfreak

powderfreak

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This is for BTV down at 300ft in the middle of the Champlain Valley... the mountain towns obviously have it earlier and the peaks are much earlier. That September 20th trace at BTV is a tie with some previous years... thus the asterisks. 

[b][b]EARLIEST/LATEST SNOWFALLS (CALENDAR DAY):

AMOUNT      EARLIEST    AVERAGE DATE OF EARLIEST    LATEST
TRACE   	9/20/91**      10/10                    5/31/45
1  INCH 	10/9/79        11/20                    5/10/26
[/b][/b]

For Mt Mansfield, August averages 0" of snow with the record being 0.2" so it could happen. September averages 0.4" of snow with the largest snowfall being 4". Mount Washington, another 2,000ft higher, gets much more snowfall in those early months of the snowfall season.

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CapturedNature

CapturedNature

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There was rain mixed with snow at ORH on September 30, 1992. That's the earliest snow I'm aware of here. I'm sure some of the 2000+ foot areas of S NH and W MA have seen it a shade earlier.

We didn't have anything (not even a drop of rain) here so I think we missed out (I was living one town west of here in Somers at the time). The coop in Brimfield recorded .02 so there must have been some kind of cutoff. Do you you think Union got in on that action? I would think their far enough east and high enough up in certain parts of town...

Wasn't that the year after Mt Pinatubo (sp?)? I guess if any year could do it, that would be the year.

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snowman21

snowman21

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We didn't have anything (not even a drop of rain) here so I think we missed out (I was living one town west of here in Somers at the time). The coop in Brimfield recorded .02 so there must have been some kind of cutoff. Do you you think Union got in on that action? I would think their far enough east and high enough up in certain parts of town...

Wasn't that the year after Mt Pinatubo (sp?)? I guess if any year could do it, that would be the year.

I think Pinatubo was in June of 1991.

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