michsnowfreak

It was like an April snow burst. The air was choked with massive flakes, instant Winter wonderland, and now, by late afternoon, only a few skiffs remain.

It was like a cloudburst of snow. It was wild. I was not expecting anything really, thought we would get rain. Got 2.0" here in basically an hour. DTW had 1.9". Looks like a general 1.5-2" in SE MI and more further north, though rates were probably hardest right in the heart of the metro. Huge flakes too. Its melty now, but was certainly fun while it lasted.

Synoptic seems a crapshoot. Some years we certainly get more, but other years we dont. One thing that often helps us is not just pure "lake effect" but lake enhanced snow. Sometimes a shortwave or clipper will move thru and it gets a boost from Lake MI, increasing snow on this side of the lake. So in that case, you really cant call it lake effect OR synoptic, its more lake enhanced synoptic snow lol.

Exactly and ive said this a hundred times.

Dont flatter yourself. Beavis obviously misunderstood what I meant. Beavis is like me on steroids when it comes to winter, the polar opposite of ALL things YOU stand for in winter. You ve been called out by multiple other posters over the years for your posting AND your exaggerating. The reason people dont think you enjoy small events (which to you is anything under 12") because youve said as much. See, I dont play that game. I like what I like, and I dont waiver from it. I liked the same type of weather through our record snow stretch of 2007-15 that I like in these last 2 lean winters. If you think its turd polishing by posting about the weather ON A WEATHER board, or correcting your misinformation, fine. Ive hated this winter as a whole, not sure how Ive polished it lol.

I'm content with my SE MI climate and take an annual trip up north in late Feb. This is the first time I've ever had a trip planned where I will have little or no snow (Feb 23-26). Bad winters happen. They suck. But they happen.

What's interesting is 1930-31 and 1925-26 are on the top of Duluths snowless list. Yet 1925-26 was Detroits 3rd snowiest winter with 78.0". Must have been an interesting storm track. 1930-31 was a drought winter and bad in most places, but a March snowstorm did save face some in the southern Lakes.

Weak ninos have had some good winters, but strong ninos bat .000 in terms of a winter that averages out on the good side here. I plan to do more research locally about la nina this summer. But the high number of snowy Decembers is very interesting.

It does often feel like if you don't attribute everything in the weather to CC you are labeled a denier. So messed up. Although when I see a troll post (ex: asserting new england will never see sustained winter again) i assume credibility for a genuine scientific discussion is low.

See your area is where it gets more "gray" for me. Because I see the want for noreasters, but you also can get a lot more sustained winter than the midatlantic. At least bouts of it. So I just dont see the romance of strong ninos. While no doubt this winter is worse than most would have imagined, the fact that the northern US would have a subpar winter (by each areas standards) is the closest thing to a guarantee you can ever make in the weather. Strong Ninos are usually warm and dry here, but we had an extremely wet/snowy January which was the only saving grace this winter. Feb has been bone dry. On the flip side, La Ninas usually bring PLENTY of fun to the northern US, but also a big rollercoaster (even more than typical).

Woah, woah, and WOAH. You COMPLETELY misinterpreted what I said. The annual bickering between me & Steve has its roots because he makes it clear he wants big dogs only, doesnt care for cold, snowcover, smaller snows, etc...whereas I like ALL THINGS WINTER and do not place emphasis on something that is rare, a monster storm. So i say if he wants to call it turd polishing because I like frequent snowfall over the biggest storm possible, so be it. I like what you like, dont paint me as the enemy! But WHERE, please tell me, have I said I liked this winter? Is it turd polishing because, seeing the alarm bells of a strong Nino winter and knowing our fun may be limited I was outside daily ENJOYING the cold/snow when it was here rather than tracking how many days, hours, and minutes away a thaw was? Is it turd polishing because I havent decided to commit a murder because Im unhappy with winter? . Do we have to video ourselves throwing things against the wall or do you take our word for it? Bing Crosby recorded White Christmas on a scorching hot summer day in 1942 btw. And sorry, but a huge majority of this CAN be blamed on ENSO state. Not all, but a lot of it. Strong Ninos are the WORST winters for us, bar none. Theres not one single one thats been even an average winter here, let alone one that would even sniff your standards, in the history of strong Ninos dating to the 1800s. And lastly, if you ask me, you are the one turd polishing this winter by lumping it in with the last 8 winters. Thats giving this winter wayyyy too much credit. This winter for me is in a league with winters like 2011-12, in its own way of course. Last winter sucked too, but was better overall. But prior to the last 2 winters, we did fine. In fact, much of this sub had unusually deep snow in Feb 2021. God forbid we have some average snow seasons after a period of record snowfall. That was not suffering. THIS is suffering.

Though we will never see a "dry" heat climate here, if I have to suffer through a hot summer, Id rather have some impressive hot spells, get some actual noteworthy high temps, and some cooler spells intermingled. These summers of almost every day humidity, muggy nights, and no impressive heat are very mundane. Last summer DTW had a max temp of just 90F. And speaking of looking ahead...I will be following the La Nina thread in the general weather forum. To say i feel next winter will be MUCH snowier throughout the Great Lakes/midwest and especially in the northwoods is an understatement.

Though Id be fine with neutral, Im also more than fine with a Nina next winter. We do far better in Ninas than Ninos in Michigan. I guess its all the difference in climates, but its crazy to see how midatlantic folks root on strong Ninos when that is literally THE worst winter you can draw up in the Great Lakes. I would argue 2023-24 has been the worst winter imaginable in northern MI/MN/WI, though Id need to do a lot of research to back it up (talking lack of snow + warmth). In southeast MI we had a good January and the rest has been terrible (Detroit has had 19.9" snow so far but 17.0" of this fell in Jan!). But all the bad I can say about this winter, there is not a single strong Nino on record that has been a good winter here. Im assuming the fondness of strong Ninos for some has to do with the heightened chance of east coast snowstorms? There are a few duds, but by and large Ninas are snowy winters here and they are often front-loaded. Its quite common for a hot summer and mild Fall to abruptly give way to a cold, snowy December in a Nina year. We also see an increased risk of some real good winter storms in Ninas. And unlike Ninos with their strength discrepancy (weak nino can often be a good winter, strong nino ALWAYS sucks), a snowy winter is attainable in any strength of Nina. Of course everything is speculation at this point, but I look forward to following this thread throughout the year, thanks for starting it George!

I fully expect a hot summer this year in a nino to nina transition. As Ive said before, by far the season that has warmed most here has been summer (esp mins), so I doubt the absence of 90F-heat will grace us 2 years in a row. 90F+ days (avg is 13) in summers preceding Modoki Ninas 1973– 9 days 1975– 4 days 1983– 21 days 1988– 39 days (most on record) 1998– 10 days 2000– 1 day 2008– 7 days 2010– 17 days 2016– 23 days *** Nino to Nina transition years 1954- 17 days 1964- 26 days 1973- 9 days 1988- 39 days 1998- 10 days 2010- 17 days 2016- 23 days

This is WAYYYY longrange, but talking modoki La Nina next year. I looked up what years were considered a modoki La Nina, and they are: 1973–1974 1975–1976 1983–1984 1988–1989 1998–1999 2000–2001 2008–2009 2010–2011 2016–2017 That composite = December will be rockin' here

I guess youll never understand where im coming from either. Best if we just ignore each other. Oh, and I can read my own stats just fine. Thats 4 storms in TOTAL of over 12"+, that why each category is 12+, 14+, otherwise it would have been worded 12-13.9", 14-15.9", etc. You dont add each category up.

A strong El Nino is a guaranteed mild winter in Michigan, so I can't say that this winter has shocked me, although it's a bit more extreme than I would have expected, especially up North. January was pretty good, the rest of winter terrible. I'll take my chances with la nina any day over el nino. And actually a modoki nina appears to be front loaded with good Decembers here. Would be a nice change of pace. Only a few duds. 1973–1974, 1975–1976, 1983–1984, 1988–1989, 1998–1999, 2000–2001, 2008–2009, 2010–2011, and 2016–2017.

Thanks!!!

0.3" of snow both here and DTW today. Based on the hit and miss nature of the heavier squalls, some areas only had a trace, but isolated areas may have had up to an inch. With today's 0.3" of snow DTW is at 19.8" on the season (17.0" in Jan) and Wyandotte 18.3" on the season (16.0" in Jan). This has to be the worst winter ever where southeast michigan still received 14-24 inches of snow in a single calendar month lol.

I think thats the one. Im putting together a list of the stuff I have for Detroit from 1835 on (to when records started), and what I have for 1857-58 is Mild & open winter, “no snow and atmosphere of spring”, until February. On January 31st violets were in bloom in gardens. Do you have a link for Fort Snelling?

You seem to truly enjoy winter though in all its aspects though, not just one single solitary metric.

When my brother (who now lives in Denver) lived in Chicago (granted he lived in the worst place possible, right on the lake), we almost always had more snow than him. Indeed the Detroit area has a snowfall total advantage over Chicago, but Chicago has the edge with lowest temps. These are things that only a hobbyist would notice though, essentially the climates are very similar. Even still, the general acting like we dont get snowstorms from steve is ridiculous. Most here already know this, but you can have an exciting storm if its not over a foot. Again, the last 20 years have been good to both areas, so the last few mundane winters (tho DTW did pop off 2 6" storms last winter) is not shocking. Storms the last 20 years: ………..DTW….ORD 6”+ --- 37 ---- 27 8”+ --- 18 ---- 12 10”+ -- 9 ----- 9 12”+ -- 2 ----- 4

Nothing wrong with liking a big dog in your own backyard. Just like you get tired of me liking winter (as you call it turd polishing) I get tired or your constant contradictions and changing complaints just to constantly act like detroit is the worst place to be in the winter. In our 2008-15 era of record snowfall we had so many really good storms in the 10-12" range, record snow depths, and you carried on that DTW couldnt eclipse a foot. Then when Detroit got a 17" storm you managed to berate the storm for taking too long, saying you like rates. Since then we have had multiple storms with impressive rates, visibility down to 1/8 mile, TSSN, and you just manage to "not remember" them. Its always something. Detroit has had more 6"+ and 8"+ storms than Chicago, and the exact same amount of 10"+ storms. I know this is a shock, but some people can still enjoy a good storm under a foot. And speaking of a foot, Chicago had 4 storms to Detroits 2 of foot+, not 10-4 as you interpreted. lol 10 storms of a foot+ in 20 years, I guess the midwest is Nova Scotia now.

Was surprised to see snow showers this morning, then downright heavier snow squalls this afternoon. Picked up 0.3". Its been so zzz I hadnt even checked but thought it was supposed to be sunny today. Todays snowfall marks the FIRST precip for me since the January 30th snowfall, a solid 2 weeks. What an about face after a January full of snow & rain. DTW had a T of rain a few days back, but nothing measurable since Jan 30th.

Where do you think the absolute lowest snowfall is so far this season in Minnesota? Do you think it's Twin Cities proper or somewhere else? I was thinking it might be somewhere South and West of the metro but there's really no first order stations.