michsnowfreak

What your thoughts on a busier December? I mentioned earlier, but last year December and February kind of swapped a typical Nina pattern. It seems like Im saying this every year, but we are due for a good December and if any traditional pattern screams "good December" for here, its when the atmosphere is in a nina-like state. And before someone starts in with the "maybe its because winter is starting later" thing...we have had NO problem getting big November cold shots or abnormally snowy Novembers. Weve had a few perfectly timed White Christmases, but Im talking we need a good December monthlong blitz. The last above avg snowfall Dec was 2020 but that was JUST barely...have to go back to 2017 for the last real good December. In the time since, literally every other month October through May has had standout snowfall relative to avg at some point, except December.

Sky to the north got dark. But we only got a trace here. We could use some measurable rain.

Ill take cromartie. Hes always easy to instant ban. Tcc posts climate stats which many of us here do as well, minus the nonsense. Plus we post all weather stats, not just one kind. Basically hes enough to annoy everybody but not be banned. Cromartie always gets instantly banned so he usually tires of making new accounts.

I do not have a backyard thermometer. I usually run similar to DTW. It was probably 95 or so. The hottest my phone said was 94. No way was it 98, you know as usual that many amateur thermometers run high, just as dewpoints on non calibrated awos often run high in humidity. The high at DTW marks the 316th time since records began in 1874 that Detroit officially hit 95+. A well advertised hot and humid day, not sure id go with "very impressive". Only missed the record by 10°. To be honest, the way they talked about dewpoints i expected worse. Peak HI was 103. 95 and humid is "very impressive" but 105 with low humidity doesn't require AC? Hmm

That particular day the humidity was low. But theres nothing pleasant about 105. There were multiple deaths and a huge fire broke out in Detroit. Its not one of the more interesting heat events of the era imo, other than the fact that its THE one time Detroit surpassed 104°. 104 was recorded in 1918, earlier in 1934, twice in 1936, and 1988. But this is the only 105.

I never said it wasnt. In fact. I said its gross and that I havent set foot outside. But for one day this heat sure got overkill media coverage compared to past hot spells. The hottest time of year here is July 13-20 though its still firmly the dog days. Hot and humid conditions are common, and everyone knows how to deal with them. In the 1930s people didnt have the luxury of AC.

Havent set foot outside. DTW is 94 dewpoint 73. An expected grossly hot/humid day, but considering its been talked about for nearly 2 weeks and its going to be 1 whopping day, way more bark than bite (here, not necessarily elsewhere). On this day in 1934, temps over 100° baked the southern Great Lakes, including an all time record 105° at Detroit. Today's high will not even sniff that.

Yes. We've had those several times. Even saw a snowbow.

Im wondering if we swap December for February. A characteristic of Nina (or Nina-like atmosphere) here is a cold snowy December and a milder, quieter February. Last winter was the opposite.

We got down to 0F both in March 2014 & 2015. At Detroit officially, so burbs easily below zero. The coldest March morning at Detroit was -4F in 1978 & 2003.

It happens from time to time but the 2015 event was followed by temps around 0F so the bitterly cold, dry crisp air made the glisten far more pronounced then you get after a glaze with a murky overcast and temps around 30F.

2014-15 was a classic severe winter, and one that would have gotten a lot more respect had it not followed directly on the heels of 2013-14. Even I rarely talk about it outside of fleeting mentions of the monster storm and record Feb cold, but I should give it more haha. Nov had a mid month arctic blast with snow for a good week, but then December was zzz city. No meangingful snow and on the mild side. Winter roared back in right after New Years and stayed til mid-late March. Snowfall was frequent in January and the ground covered the entire time, then a Feb 1/2 storm dropped nearly 17" of snow (my biggest) followed by a record cold month. The snow remained deep and fresh with light refreshers but no more big storms. We were in the deep, deep freeze. It was the 2nd February in a row to have wall-to-wall double digit snow depth (prior to 2014, no month had this). Feb was Detroits 2nd coldest on record, just barely behind 1875. On March 3rd a 2-inch snowfall turned to freezing rain and then everything froze solid under another zero wave. For 4 straight days the deep snow had the most shiny, perfect glaze of ice Id ever seen - it was truly incredible. Due to the very light December and March snow the winter finished with a very modest 47.5" - less than half of 2013-14 and only slightly above avg. But the tundra cold and deep snow made the winter so much more severe than the total snow indicated. Going back to 1913 (thats as far back as I have continuous snow depth/ snowcover records), the winters with the most days of 10"+ snowcover: #1) 2013-14: 46 days #2) 2014-15: 32 days #3) 1998-99: 17 days #4) 1981-82: 15 days #5) 2008-09: 15 days So the back-to-back winters combined for 78 days with 10"+ snow depth. No winter/winters from the old days came CLOSE to that. Below is a pic after the Feb 2nd storm, and then the glazed snowpack from March 2015.

Wall to wall snow and cold is still kind of subjective. By far the poster child for that here is 2013-14. Honestly, no other winter came close. I mean, 1977-78 was wall to wall but it got quiet after the Jan blizzard. In 2013-14, it was truly non stop snow, non stop bitter cold, and non stop deep snowpack. 1993-94 was a solid winter here but I wouldnt call it wall to wall. 1995-96 was cold and dry yuck. 2002-03 was a pretty wall to wall winter, but Id easily put 2008-09, 2010-11, 2013-14, 2017-18 ahead of that. 2007-08 was wall to wall snow but not cold. NOV 2013 DEC 2013 JAN 2014 FEB 2014 MAR 2014 APR 2014

Definitely lots if generalizations haha. The current 7 year avg for Detroit is 36.6". Below avg but nothing eye popping at all (1880-2025 avg is 41"). Nothing close to lowest. The highest 7 year average was 59.8", ending in 2014. (I averaged 61.1"!) The lowest 7 year average was 26.5", ending in 1950. The 1990s were crap here. Very similar to the 1950s. As someone who's school years spanned the 1990s its crazy how much more snow I remember in college and beyond than growing up (the anti old-timer).

Exactly. My house actually cooled to like 65 last night due to the cool air even though I had the AC set on 70 and it didnt run for half the day.

How welcome would that be! It was actually a pretty nice start to June. Hardly used any AC til June 20th or so but since then I haven't turned it off. Even with a few cool nights and pleasant days this week, im like, what's the point?

How about her?

Very refreshing morning. 56° at DTW, but 46° Ann Arbor. Now bracing for the corn sweat

It was a nice cool morning for this time of year. Detroit got down to 56F but Ann Arbor hit 46F. So Detroit was closer to a record low this morning (49F) than they will be to a record high Thursday (105F). Why do I bring that up? I saw a post last night (not here) that the "extreme high temps" Thursday have happened before but are more likely in todays climate. I mean, really? You want to talk about something, talk about the oppressive humidity, which would already have been bad enough but will get a boost in the midwest from peak "corn sweat" season. But a forecast high of 93F on July 24th is news? For comparison, Detroit has hit 95F or higher 315 times since records began in 1874. (yes, I know itll be worse to my south as it usually is, but again, Im concerned about my temps, not elsewhere lol).

I had 78.2". DTW in a mini "screwzone" with 71.7", if you can call the 4th snowiest winter a screwzone.

Posters in the southern Great Lakes will be throwing confetti, not rocks, at the mention of 2007-08. Banner snow season. Madison, WI- 101.4" Milwaukee, WI- 99.1" Ann Arbor, MI- 90.5" Flint, MI- 82.8" Saginaw, MI- 80.0" Cleveland, OH- 77.2" Detroit, MI- 71.7" Chicago, IL- 60.3" Toledo, OH- 58.1"

I was using it as an example. I didnt even look up the departure. Detroits winter was 27.5° which was -0.9° 1991-2020 departures. But again. This turned into more than my intended point. My entire point is that everyone in the U.S. did not "feel" a 34.07° winter avg temp. Some places were warmer and some colder relative to their own averages.

In the case of NYC it was a close representation. Perhaps its always a close rep, Im not sure. But youre missing my point. The average winter temp in International Falls last winter was 9.1°. You dont tell someone who lives there and says "it was pretty cold this winter!", "well you probably felt cold after last winter but the CONUS temp was 34.07° which is in the warmer half of the record". What the CONUS temp is is a reflection of thousands of different temps and multiple climate types. So what anyone "felt" or "experienced" last winter is based on what their weather was, not the average of the united states. BTW. Now I know what dense ranking is. Always thought it was ridiculous. DTX doesn't do that but if they did id still make my own charts without it. Just my opinion. I come up with 60th warmest in threaded record for NYC (make sure you average by days, not months, because Feb having less days screws the average). Bottom line, since 1870, NYC had 59 winters with a warmer mean temp than 2024-25, not 36 winters.

Thanks Don! Enjoy your vacation.

You misunderstood what I meant. I meant a national ranking/average has nothing to do with individual locations- each locations actual weather/ranking is their own and what they experienced/felt, not a rounded national number of all stations. The way you imply it its like saying someone in Miami must've frozen with their average winter temp at 34.07°. And international falls must've felt like perma spring at 34.07°. I dont know what dense ranking sorting is but NYC 34.8° ranks 60th warmest in their threaded record, not 37th.