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Sophisticated Skeptic

Climate Emergency

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The constant re-re-re-reposting of this zombie topic got me wondering. How many people actually believe this stuff? It's pretty surprising.

Didn't realize how prominent this belief has become (30-40% of the US):

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-017-0014-3

The above paper gives some stats and background on the conspiracy theory that SS subscribes to.

Particularly interesting is how it cuts across ideological lines with roughly equal proportions.

The Guardian did a piece on this last year, too:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/22/california-conspiracy-theorist-farmers-chemtrails

WaPo did one in 2015 as well. They make a decent argument about it providing a hint at how people would react to a real geoengineering attempt (such as stratospheric sulfates):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/01/22/how-a-group-of-conspiracy-theorists-could-derail-the-debate-over-climate-policy/?utm_term=.8d80e6d346a0

 

SS has all the hallmarks of a "true believer" -- labeling anybody who disagrees as a "shill" or mentally defective in some way.

It's irony at its finest.

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9 minutes ago, csnavywx said:

The constant re-re-re-reposting of this zombie topic got me wondering. How many people actually believe this stuff? It's pretty surprising.

Didn't realize how prominent this belief has become (30-40% of the US):

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-017-0014-3

The above paper gives some stats and background on the conspiracy theory that SS subscribes to.

Particularly interesting is how it cuts across ideological lines with roughly equal proportions.

The Guardian did a piece on this last year, too:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/22/california-conspiracy-theorist-farmers-chemtrails

WaPo did one in 2015 as well. They make a decent argument about it providing a hint at how people would react to a real geoengineering attempt (such as stratospheric sulfates):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/01/22/how-a-group-of-conspiracy-theorists-could-derail-the-debate-over-climate-policy/?utm_term=.8d80e6d346a0

 

SS has all the hallmarks of a "true believer" -- labeling anybody who disagrees as a "shill" or mentally defective in some way.

It's irony at its finest.

Yeah it (the conspiracy angle) has actually gotten worse IMHO in the climate science amateur following. 

It doesn't matter what literature is posted, they don't have respect for any dissenting view...even in the confines of legit science publications. 

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I think Dane Wigington is aware of the future impact of geoengineering on climate policy and has had the foresight to derail such measures by generating a malicious picture for the public consumption. 50/50 chance that aerosols are never dispersed into the stratosphere largely due to a combination of political barriers and conspiracy theories.

With that said. It's ever more important to lower carbon emissions and resource consumption especially since we are wasting decades and various rare Earth minerals needed for a functional transition.

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Does anyone here actually realize how damaging geoengineering is in the long-run (75-500 years) without legislated reduction in resource consumption? One of the quickest paths to extinction with no possibility of recovery.

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Most people see geoengineering and the conventional science on rising temperatures as ridiculous. The two come from the same thought process, the weather is changing, people are responsible. The environmentalists tell this story about how population control, pollution control and changing everything about how people live is necessary for preventing a disaster in the future, saving the weather and environment, and nature: plants, animals, people, life itself.

Other people look at the cloud seeding experiments from the 1960s in Vietnam, the fact that the government had A-bombs in the 1940s, and assume that the scale has increased to include full weather manipulation. It is a weird consensus in a way that the weather is changing, with different reasons. 

I generally think the government is too incompetent to do anything at scale, whether it is geo-engineering or changing how people live. More generally, it isn't really a huge separation conceptually between "fighting climate change" and "geoengineering", its just whether you are fighting the perceived changes in weather with social policy and taxes or whether you are fighting it with chemicals or however geoengineering is supposed to work.

For me, the real issue is when people run an economic model on top of a climate model, the level of chaos in both systems is ridiculous to try to predict as it is, combining them and saying with absolute certainty that x will reduce y given known assumptions is what really pisses people off. I've worked in polling on controversial subjects, including this, so I'm not really giving my opinion, so much as what people say and believe.

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People are acting particularly bizarre during the last week as well,.   Slow, sluggish, zombie like.

Has the pollution layer worked it's way down so low now, that were all breathing in our own poison ?  (maybe we deserve it for what its done to animal / insect life for so many years)

Or is it from a significant increase in chemtrail spraying?   Dunno , but it's affecting people significantly up in the mountains.    It's not just animal life walking around bizarre like anymore.

If it isn't chemtrails, maybe all aircraft should be grounded, till the culprit is found.   Maybe it's some secret additive added to jet fuel...that none of us are aware of. 

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21 minutes ago, Sugarloaf1989 said:

People are acting sluggish here too, maybe it's because of the 90F + temperatures and high humidity.

Just a guess.

 

Is that the silly excuse everybody is giving to each other to justify it all?

c'mon all .   this is not normal.    strange crime occurring all over as well.

huge difference between the general 'slowed down' summer feel....and people acting like zombies all over. 

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Yeah, I test the air. We sample the airmass for ozone, NO2, NOx, SO2, PM2.5, toxics, and much more. There's a huge sampling network across the country. There's also satellite observation capabilities now. NOTHING is unusual and in fact, the air pollution is getting MUCH better in most of the country. Can't speak for China, India, etc. As for chem trails or whatever they may be called. It's simply exhaust from airplanes condensing at very cold temperatures. I realize I won't convince you otherwise. We occasionally receive calls about this and give them the same explanation. It's not what they want to hear. 

Yeah, when it's hot and humid it tends to slow people down. 

I realize I'm just feeding the troll, but I wanted to give my true observations. 

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https://newscenter.lbl.gov/2012/10/17/elevated-indoor-carbon-dioxide-impairs-decision-making-performance/

Student volunteers enlisted by the team engaged in the game-like simulation, working at desks in a chamber sealed tightly with a door like that on a refrigerator. Over three short trials, they breathed air containing 600, 1,000 and 2,500 ppm of carbon dioxide. The results astounded Mendell. Indoor air experts generally don’t consider carbon dioxide to be a health problem unless breathed at levels far higher, at which point it causes respiration changes. “I didn’t know what to think,” he says. There were “moderate” declines in decision making performance at 1,000 ppm compared to 600 ppm. At 2,500 ppm, the drop in mental capacity was “astonishingly large.”

The scientists published their results in 2012, in the journal Environmental Health Perspectives. In June 2016, a team of Harvard researchers (also collaborating with Satish at Syracuse) published a paper that roughly confirmed these findings, again in Environmental Health Perspectives. The Harvard group measured a 15 percent decline of cognitive ability scores at 950 ppm and 50 percent declines at 1,400 ppm. “We were really surprised,” says the new paper’s lead author, Joseph Allen, a professor at Harvard’s School of Public Health. Mendell says that his team received inquiries from officials at the Navy and NASA, concerned about crews in sealed subs and spacecraft. “They were shocked that there might be big effects at 2,500 ppm,” he recalls.

 

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I've learned that once someone entertains the idea of conspiracy, hoax, fraud, etc. it becomes a trap in which they are forever stuck. Bona-fide evidence be damned.

Whereas rational people understand the value of consilience (the idea that multiple lines of evidence from multiple sources spanning multiple disciplines of science all tend to converge on the truth) conspiracy theorists prefer anomalous pieces of evidence from questionable sources.

This thread and others like it are a stain on the subforum.

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4 hours ago, Vice-Regent said:

Ship tracks

 

Why do you and your accomplice skeptic post garbage videos from someone who didn't even go to college? Almost like you are badgering everyone on here for attention. Narcissism? 

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If its anecdotal observations from people they want... Everyone I have come into contact within the last week has went about their daily business the same as they always have. The days are sunny and humid with the typical pop up storm every other day just as they always have been in previous Summers. You can't say my observations are invalid because of supposed chemicals in the air as if they were real they would affect you just as much if not more living in a more highly populated area. How dare there be an innocent harmless answer to a phenomena! For you guys there always has to be a government cover up involved because BIG BROTHER! Ahh you won't even give this message any thought you'll think I'm some federal agent or something down playing your 100% true message... What convinces you without a doubt they are doing this. Information about anything leaks to the public anymore given enough time in the Information Era. Global operations can't be done under the radar anymore. Even if they were trying to affect Earth's climate in a controlled matter why would they hide their actions from the public?

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14 hours ago, SN_Lover said:

Why do you and your accomplice skeptic post garbage videos from someone who didn't even go to college? Almost like you are badgering everyone on here for attention. Narcissism? 

 

13 hours ago, Stebo said:

Oh look another tinfoil hat nonsense thread.

 

The people doing the spraying love bird-brains like you guys.    Easier to control. 

Dane is the only guy telling the truth.  People higher level and in the military will secretly whisper this to others only close to them...but don't have the balls to tell the public openly for fear of assassination.  Just youtube "Dane Wigington" name in youtube....and the first result is "Dane Wigington Murdered" 

Like i said, they love bird-brains that are in denial of the truth.  Keep believing the fake news, so that they'll have an easier time with their global control agenda. 

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21 hours ago, GreensboroWx said:

Yeah, I test the air. We sample the airmass for ozone, NO2, NOx, SO2, PM2.5, toxics, and much more. There's a huge sampling network across the country. There's also satellite observation capabilities now. NOTHING is unusual and in fact, the air pollution is getting MUCH better in most of the country. Can't speak for China, India, etc. As for chem trails or whatever they may be called. It's simply exhaust from airplanes condensing at very cold temperatures. I realize I won't convince you otherwise. We occasionally receive calls about this and give them the same explanation. It's not what they want to hear. 

Yeah, when it's hot and humid it tends to slow people down. 

I realize I'm just feeding the troll, but I wanted to give my true observations. 

 

maybe more should be tested for...

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14 hours ago, SN_Lover said:

Why do you and your accomplice skeptic post garbage videos from someone who didn't even go to college? Almost like you are badgering everyone on here for attention. Narcissism? 

Role playing a narcissistic psychopathic James Hansen who wants to destroy civilization. xD

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